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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    In almost every case of litigation everything stays in place pending the appeal.

    Can't see what you are really complaining about except that you don't like it that they won't play by your rules.

    But, you seem to have brought a lot of that on yourself with an attitude that struck them wrong in the first place.

    You haven't helped yourself by calling all the people who could help you corrupt.

    I still have questions regarding some of the things the other poster said but I don't think it will do a lot f good to keep asking those.

    Are you saying that you could resolve this by moving your gate and that you are willing to do that but you are somehow being prevented from doing so by the County officials until after the appeal?
    Yes, I am saying the County officials are not honoring the Judges ruling of 24 feet and are prohibiting me from using the legal access to my land. I will assume you did not watch any of the videos as I consider armed men trying to break into your home a little past "not playing by my rules" watch this and perhaps you will understand better. Part 1 Pushmataha County OK Attempted armed break in - YouTube Post after you watch it and let me know what you think. I have tried to answer every question asked of me, and will continue to do so,

  2. #62
    Gold Member tmajor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Well, I hate to say it, but corruption runs "deep and wide". Here in my county and the adjacent county, I believe, there have been 33 indicted for corruption of one degree or the other. This has been a several year probe by the FBI, bringing down judges and their associates. National news. It was like dominoes, once one fell, the others followed. And, of course, it was all about money.

    Google "kids for cash".
    "There's gotta be a better way!"

  3. #63
    Super Member rswyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    How can he he trying to deny you access to your property and cause you all these problems if the area in dispute is no bigger than that?
    Because he apparently got some real pricks for new neighbors ....

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    And you can just move your gate a few feet and avoid all this? Why not just do that?
    Because he will still have to cross a portion of the Kirkes property (which he is probably legally entitled to do, due to the row/easements) to access his property off that road - and they, being the pricks that they apparently are, will, no doubt, attempt (through legal means) to prevent him from doing so.

    They will likely attempt everything they can, to prevent him from crossing any portion of their land - even if he has a perfectly legal right to do so - so as to cause him the utmost amount of expense and inconvenience ...
    Last edited by rswyan; 09-06-2011 at 12:59 AM.

  4. #64
    Super Member rswyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge man View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry, maybe I don't get it. You can move your gate a 100 feet and have new access? It will cost $1100. Seems like the route to go to me.
    Read my reply to two_bit_score - he still has to cross their land.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge man View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way please, but I have been involved with several land disputes as a land surveyor. 9 out of 10 times it gets personal. The people don't like each other. That appears to be the case here. Why don't you just move your gate? Am I missing something?
    Yup - look over the property line (in red surrounded by yellow squiggles) - the road lies within Kirkes property - not exactly on the border of it.

    Even moving the driveway/entrance will still require Albion to cross their property. He has the legal right to do so, due to the existing row/easements - in either location

    If Kirkes ain't givin' it up in the current location, why would anyone figure that they would do so in another ?

    That's why they went to court and got a judge to reduce it over what it was listed as, in the DOT inventory.

    That, in and of itself, smells like payola, corruption .... or just plain stupidity - the judge should be primarily acting in the public interest when determining a matter of this type (public road), not solely in the interest of one private party.

    Albion,

    Please correct me if I am anyway wrong in my understanding of these matters.

  5. #65
    Super Member two_bit_score's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by albion View Post
    Yes, I am saying the County officials are not honoring the Judges ruling of 24 feet and are prohibiting me from using the legal access to my land. I will assume you did not watch any of the videos as I consider armed men trying to break into your home a little past "not playing by my rules" watch this and perhaps you will understand better. Part 1 Pushmataha County OK Attempted armed break in - YouTube Post after you watch it and let me know what you think. I have tried to answer every question asked of me, and will continue to do so,
    I've already seen the video but I watched it again just to be sure there wasn't something I missed.

    That tape showed nothing but some snooping. The SO should have talked to the campers and if they could identify them then they could have been put on criminal trespass warning but that is about it. Evidently, your claim about the land being properly posted is questionable as the deputy says there were no signs. You say there were and evidently she did not see them while at the scene. Were you there when she came out? If so that should have been pointed put right then.

    I still don't understand why you would still have to cross his land if what you say is true, that the area in dispute is represented by that small triangle depicted in the photo.

    In the post from s.e. Ok which gave a version of 'the other side' for lack of a more exact term, it was stated that you could connect to the road by putting in your own drive way under the court order. We haven't seen the court order and you are feeding out bits and pieces of the story that support your side.

    My opinion s that you are being evasive and couching your answers to inquiries in terms that are less than forthright. Just my opinion, but you decided to try this case here. I don't believe very much of what you are saying is fully true. That doesn't mean I believe you are making everything up or that the other side is without fault.

    My sympathies would normally be with someone in your predicament. I have several properties where i am the absentee owner and stuff happens that I don't like. If I can do something about it I do. I first read this I thought you might be getting the royal screwing but something kept nagging at me that this just did not ring true. Now, I don't know if it's all true or not and I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm not sure we'll get the real entire story.

    What I am saying is that a routine boundary dispute that probably could have been resolved or completely avoided got out of hand in good part, probably, because of the way you acted when you met with the guy.

    Now, you are both trying to prove who has the bigger britches and I have an idea you are going to come up on the wrong side of the deal.

  6. #66
    Super Member two_bit_score's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by rswyan View Post
    listed as, in the DOT inventory.

    That, in and of itself, smells like .........
    rswyan, thanks for your input but you don't know any more actual facts about this than I do, which is next to nothing.

    Not putting you down and yes, your opinion is worth just as much as mine in this case, again, which is worth next to nothing.

    Please excuse me if I don't find it worth my time to refute all your counter-points. It's just that you and I won't resolve anything because we don't really know what s going on, fully, in this matter. I'm pretty sure we haven't been getting the full story from the beginning.

    I'm all for slamming the cops for not doing their job, standing from or the guy who wants to live quietly who's getting shafted by the big shot local boss hog type, railing against local good ole boy politics and that type of thing but this case just doesn't smell right to me from the get go.

  7. #67
    Super Member rswyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Well, well, well ..... I'm wonderin' who we have here ?

    Wuz wonderin' how long that would take ....

    Looks like this could be fun .....

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    It seems Kerry Engles of Burlesom Tx is only giving you bits and pieces of the facts in this case.
    And you're gonna do better, right ?

    Ok ..... well, while you're making your self-appointed rounds dispensing da facts, maybe you can clue us all in on how it happened that uninvited, armed men were trespassing on Mr. Engles property, peering into his house - apparently at night - when no one was home ?

    Personally, I'm thinkin' that bunch of clueless retards ought to be countin' their blessings that they are still breathin' .... and not wearin' lead in the head ...

    BTW, did I understand it correctly that at least one of these 'tards - the one who was positively identified apparently by a police dispatacher - is in the employ of Kirkes ? Is that correct ?

    Here's a couple of matters for ya to clear up Sport - if you feel up to the task:

    How did the Engles' power line get shot down ?

    How did Engles' well get damaged ?

    How did all Engles' game cameras have the SD cards stolen and how were they then placed upside down with the battery compartments open, so that they would be ruined by rain ?

    How was it that Engles' dog was poisoned ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    This feud didn't just come up on Engles. Engles dozed trees over onto the fence and left them and that is what lead to cattle getting out.
    Don't suppose you have any evidence of this by chance .... say actual pictures of pushed over trees and dozer tracks ?

    (I'm guessin' mebbe not ... since if ya had it, ya woulda already posted it ....)

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    IThe first time Engles ever introduced himself to the rancher he proceeded to make threats of law suites and threatened to whip there *** as i have heard and showed up at there home continueing in this fit of rage ....
    What prompted that I wonder (if indeed, anything even remotely resembling it ever occurred) ?

    Sorry, but any cred you mighta had went by the wayside with the publication on the web and these internets of video of armed men trespassing on someone's property, and casing the guys house, at night, while no one was there ....

    BTW, wiping off the finger prints off the door knob for the camera was a really slick move there Ace - just classic ! (prima facie evidence of knowing that one's activities were improper/illegal, destroying evidence of a crime, etc.)

    Please pass the word along: I look forward to be entertained with more major stupidity on the part of these dimwit cretins ....

    And just so we're entirely clear here: you have absolutely zero credibility in my eyes ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    IAccording to multiple witnesses on that day the rancher agreed that if Engles was willing to abide by the costumery practice on fenceing and pay material cost the rancher would install a new fence on the property line and continue to allow Engles access across his property.
    Responsible ranchers don't let their animals wander off their property - they keep them fenced in or otherwise contained.

    My next door neighbor has about 75 to 100 head of sheep ..... they have never been on my land ..... possibly because he maintains his fence ....

    BTW, it sure sounds to me like a pretty good scam ..... for an irresponsible, unethical rancher to get a fence in poor condition replaced on your neighbor's dime ....

    On the multiple witnesses, lemme guess - they all fall into one of the following categories:

    1. related to Kirkes
    2. friends of Kirkes
    3. employed by Kirkes

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    Engles rufused and "said he didn't need the new fence and would spend anything on it".
    I'm guessin' you meant "wouldn't", and not "would" ....

    I also guess if he had livestock someone might have a legit issue ..... but he don't ...

    Me personally, I'd be kinda worried about what might happen if one of them prize bovines happened to wander off my land because I was negligent about my fence upkeep ..... and a neighbor considered them to be a nuisance .... or a threat to his loved ones ....

    Black Angus cook-outs at the Engles place might get to be a regular feature methinks ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    He was then told he wouldnt be allowed to use the private property and gate as if it were his own any longer.
    Yeah ..... IOW, the Kirkes attempted to extort the price of a new fence out of the guy ..... as the price he needed to pay to access his land ..... .... to replace one that they had failed to maintain, right ? (all while cleverly qualifying the access as a permissive use that they could revoke)

    Them Kirkes guys apparently are a real class outfit ....

    What I'm wondering, is whether they have fully considered how their standing in the community, various trade organizations, and industry journals (like say The Oklahoma Cattlemens Association, Oklahoma Angus Association, American Angus Association, Angus Journal, to name but a few) might be ..... enhanced ..... if individuals and members connected with those entities were to get a DVD containing (among other things) video which shows armed men, who were apparently camped with permission on the Kirkes land, trespassing on a neighbors land and casing his house ?

    Whatcha tink there Sport .... sound like just the kind of PR coup that Don and Brian might like to score on ?

    Just remember: every time they have to look another person in the eyes .... they'll wonder if that persons knows ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    Keep in mind the gate is on property purchased by the rancher and is approximatly 11 feet back from the property line therefore it is solely owned by the rancher and Engles never had permission to use it or lock it.
    Is he locking his own gate ... or the Kirkes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    As to the county road easement and right of way the court up held that none exist and the road was solely on private property and the county had only been given permision to maintain the surface for neighboring land owners access there for no right of way exist.
    Local judges often rule incorrectly ..... particularly if someone is paying ..... or influencing them in some other manner (blackmail, etc.)

    So lemme see if I understand this correctly there Chief:

    The county is expending public funds .... to maintain an individual's private road (personal property)

    Really ?

    Tell me more ..... I'm all ears ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    The court also rulled that Engles does have access to his property after the road leaves the ranchers property and jogs over onto the section line.
    Post the entirety of the judges findings and decision.

    Dare ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by SE OK Citizen View Post
    Putting a road down the section line is Engles legal point of access not accross the ranchers property.
    Yeah, well .... I own a 50' frontage on a road ..... that an adjacent neighbor uses as their driveway ..... it's at the far end of my property, it's in a very visible area, homes on either side of it .... and I don't use it (our driveway is off another road)

    The neighbor could construct a driveway on his own land .... but he maintains the drive, mows the grass on my frontage, saves me from having to screw with it.

    Considering the above, do I care that he uses it .... even though he has no legal right to do so ?

    No .... but then I ain't a total dikwad either .... however:

    YMMV.
    Last edited by rswyan; 09-06-2011 at 04:03 AM.

  8. #68
    Veteran Member AchingBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    This tough old rodeo cowboy from Oklahoma used to own the property next door to me; as well as a few others around the county. He acted exactly like the Kirkses, intimidating, and bullying people; cutting off easements, dumping garbage on other people's property adjoining his.

    One of the local judges finally had enough complaints about him, and told him If he ever saw him in his court room again he would lock him up.

    He tried to go through my property to get to his land, but there was no recorded easement. I successfully kept him off, and in the aftermath, he destroyed my lagoon septic system.

    It is a long story. I could not sell my land, was a young widower with two sons, and had no place else to go. So, I fought this guy with prayer. Thank God he finally got his reward; whatever it was and wherever he is. I thank the Lord for the victory.

    May guardian angels surround your land.
    Psalm 34[a][b]
    Of David. When he pretended to be insane before Abimelek, who drove him away, and he left.

    1 I will extol the LORD at all times;
    his praise will always be on my lips.
    2 I will glory in the LORD;
    let the afflicted hear and rejoice.
    3 Glorify the LORD with me;
    let us exalt his name together.

    4 I sought the LORD, and he answered me;
    he delivered me from all my fears.
    5 Those who look to him are radiant;
    their faces are never covered with shame.
    6 This poor man called, and the LORD heard him;
    he saved him out of all his troubles.
    7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him,
    and he delivers them.

    8 Taste and see that the LORD is good;
    blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.
    9 Fear the LORD, you his holy people,
    for those who fear him lack nothing.
    10 The lions may grow weak and hungry,
    but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing.
    11 Come, my children, listen to me;
    I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
    12 Whoever of you loves life
    and desires to see many good days,
    13 keep your tongue from evil
    and your lips from telling lies.
    14 Turn from evil and do good;
    seek peace and pursue it.

    15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
    and his ears are attentive to their cry;
    16 but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
    to blot out their name from the earth.

    17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them;
    he delivers them from all their troubles.
    18 The LORD is close to the brokenhearted
    and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

    19 The righteous person may have many troubles,
    but the LORD delivers him from them all;
    20 he protects all his bones,
    not one of them will be broken.

    21 Evil will slay the wicked;
    the foes of the righteous will be condemned.
    22 The LORD will rescue his servants;
    no one who takes refuge in him will be condemned.
    I thank God for these gifts: 2005 Mahindra 2615 HST w/loader, (485 hours), and 3710 backhoe. Markham tooth bar, Bush Hog SQ60 rotary cutter, Bush Hog 3507 angle blade, Bush Hog LLR84 landscape rake w/gauge wheels, Rankin loader mounted forks, Paumco Quick Spade, Agri-Ease 3 point log splitter.

  9. #69
    Super Member rswyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    rswyan, thanks for your input but you don't know any more actual facts about this than I do, which is next to nothing.
    I might not ... or I might ....

    I've tracked this situation on multiple web forums - have you ?

    I looked at (all ?) six videos (only two were linked here originally) - have you ?

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    Not putting you down and yes, your opinion is worth just as much as mine in this case, again, which is worth next to nothing.
    My opinion is worth whatever someone finds it to be worth. You've drawn your own conclusions about that - as is your right - but please don't presume to try to tell me what my opinion is worth to either myself or others. That's for myself and others to determine.

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    Please excuse me if I don't find it worth my time to refute all your counter-points.
    No worries ..... if ya ever come up with a valid refutation of whatever I have to say, feel free to toss it in .... if not, that's fine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    It's just that you and I won't resolve anything because we don't really know what s going on, fully, in this matter. I'm pretty sure we haven't been getting the full story from the beginning.
    That's probably true - although it may only be as a consequence of what would be required to give "the full story" ..... and not for some other nefarious reason.

    Of course, it isn't unreasonable to expect either party to color their presentation to render themselves in the best possible light ... and their opponent in the worst ....

    Quote Originally Posted by two_bit_score View Post
    I'm all for slamming the cops for not doing their job, standing from or the guy who wants to live quietly who's getting shafted by the big shot local boss hog type, railing against local good ole boy politics and that type of thing but this case just doesn't smell right to me from the get go.
    I understand - everyone's sense of smell is different.

    BTW, I read your reply to Albion after I wrote the above, and there is much in it I agree with (but not all)

  10. #70
    Elite Member dodge man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad neighbors and County corruption

    I doubt we ever can get the full story on what is going on, and if we did, it depends on who you listen to. Like I have said, I've seen this before. In some cases, I would consider them resonable men. I've been involved in cases where I liked both sides, but when you put them together as neighbors, they become unresonable.

    Most of the time when I do a land survey during a boundary dispute, by the end of the job, I know that one party is being unfair to the other. As a land surveyor, I can not become an advocate for either side. It doesn't matter who is paying the bill, I complete the survey the same way. A lawyer can be someones advocate. They may actually think there client is wrong, but if they pay the invoices......

    BTW, there is a term for the fence that was built along the edge of the road, its called a "spite fence". It serves no usefull purpose, other than to make someone mad.
    Dave,
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