I'm considering having a solar panel electrical system installed.
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WilliamBos
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A life towards living off the grid? My eventual plans too.
Tollster
Veteran Member
Check into tax rebates, state and federal, you may be surprised how much you may be able to save.
ultrarunner
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They are popular here in California... rebates and credits soften the expense... several on my street.
All have the grid tie in... so they don't have a working system if the grid is down... they also do not have storage batteries.
One neighbor mounted his 3 arrays on steel posts and hasn't had an electric bill for over 2 years... planning to swap out his gas water heater for electric to use some of the surplus...
People questioned him why he would self install at age 75 and he said for the satisfaction of it and he has been very happy with the results... spent around 30k in materials and permits...
All have the grid tie in... so they don't have a working system if the grid is down... they also do not have storage batteries.
One neighbor mounted his 3 arrays on steel posts and hasn't had an electric bill for over 2 years... planning to swap out his gas water heater for electric to use some of the surplus...
People questioned him why he would self install at age 75 and he said for the satisfaction of it and he has been very happy with the results... spent around 30k in materials and permits...
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Run the numbers and be sure to include the cost of battery replacement into what you pay for electricty to what it will cost to buy the system, intall it and maintain it. If you don't have to have it, the cost is a huge consideration. Then factor in where we are with the technology and where do you thin we'll be in ten or twenty years.
Eddie
Eddie
Redneck in training
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People pay 80k and up for in example Porsche and nobody questions sanity of such decision. There are no rebates, no return on investment and people still by them.
So if someone want solar system so be it. Profitable or not.
In fact I figured out that grid tie system, if installed DIY will pay for itself in reasonable time. I saw solar cell for 74c/W when bought by a crate. The rebate is calculated including installation cost so if you can install it by yourself you also get 30% of your own labor value. Turn key installation adds, by my estimation, about $3/W to the cost.
So if someone want solar system so be it. Profitable or not.
In fact I figured out that grid tie system, if installed DIY will pay for itself in reasonable time. I saw solar cell for 74c/W when bought by a crate. The rebate is calculated including installation cost so if you can install it by yourself you also get 30% of your own labor value. Turn key installation adds, by my estimation, about $3/W to the cost.
tommu56
Elite Member
dig up 3rrl's thread on this
I have an off grid cabin and if power was available for the ~$8000.00 in my SMALL system I'd use utility power any day if it was available.
just a opinion from a user.
tom
I have an off grid cabin and if power was available for the ~$8000.00 in my SMALL system I'd use utility power any day if it was available.
just a opinion from a user.
tom
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There's "living off the grid" and "living when the grid is off".
As our "grid" become older and often has maintenance delayed (because it is not cost effective for the corporations running the grid) more and more power outages occur.
Right now I've a tiny 7K generator for when the grid goes off for a while, which it has for several days at a time. Mainly to keep the freezer and a small a/c unit running. And that was for living within 12 miles of the White House!!
Now I'm looking for a 20KW or larger solution for standby at our new place. That's standby and hopefully will only get used once a month for maintenance.
That's probably $8K just to ensure SWMBO doesn't burn down the house because she has to use candles when the lights go out.
If I had a system so I could "live off the grid" I wouldn't have to prepare for "living when the grid is off".
As our "grid" become older and often has maintenance delayed (because it is not cost effective for the corporations running the grid) more and more power outages occur.
Right now I've a tiny 7K generator for when the grid goes off for a while, which it has for several days at a time. Mainly to keep the freezer and a small a/c unit running. And that was for living within 12 miles of the White House!!
Now I'm looking for a 20KW or larger solution for standby at our new place. That's standby and hopefully will only get used once a month for maintenance.
That's probably $8K just to ensure SWMBO doesn't burn down the house because she has to use candles when the lights go out.
If I had a system so I could "live off the grid" I wouldn't have to prepare for "living when the grid is off".
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Read this website about tax credits, DSIRE: DSIRE Home.
NC gives a 35% credit and the Feds give a 30%. Your power company may also provide credits.
Read the small print though for your state if they give credits. In NC you will almost certainly take years to get the full credit since the state will only credit a maximum of 50% of the state taxes you paid. You can roll over the credit for years until the system is paid off.
To get the credit from the state, the system has to be installed by a licensed company. It is NOT a DIY installation if you want the credit. I think the power company has the same requirement.
Figure an installed cost at $6-8 a watt for a grid tied system not using batteries. The price has been dropping but the last time I websearched that is the prices I found. If you find cheaper let us know.
Home Power magazine had an article that said that you will only get 65% of the power generated on the roof into your power outlet. That seems like a HUGE amount of loss to me.
Our house uses, on average, 41 KWH per day and our area gets 5 hours of good sunlight a day. If we put up a 5,000 watt system we would generate 25KWH and the system would cost $30,000-40,000. If the loss is really 35% then we would only be generating 3,250 wats or 16 KWH or 40% of our house hold needs.
Eventually the system would cost us $10,500-14,000 after tax credits came in but we would have to have enough cash or take out a loan to buy the system at $30,000-40,000. We would have to have a loan for the better part of a year before the Fed tax credit kicked in and paid us 30%. Then the state credits would take years to roll in.
Oh, by the way, a grid tied system DOES NOT work during a power outage. You would think there would be a way to work around this but I have not found the way. So if you want back up power you need batteries. Ching Ching goes the dollar. Some of the batteries I was looking at were $250 a piece and I would need 6-8 of them. They might last 2 to 8 years. Nobody really knows. So lets say the batteries lasted four years. Every four years I would have to replace $1,500-2,000 worth of batteries which is $31-41 a month in batteries. $30-40 a month is about a third of our average power bill.
Best case, meaning the system cost $6 a watt and we actually got 100% of the power generated at the outlets, the payoff is 12 years not including interest paid on the loan required to buy the system. Worse case the system would take 24 years to pay off if the cost is $8 a watt and we only get 65% of the power generation to use. If batteries are used it really is ugly money wise.
Later,
Dan
NC gives a 35% credit and the Feds give a 30%. Your power company may also provide credits.
Read the small print though for your state if they give credits. In NC you will almost certainly take years to get the full credit since the state will only credit a maximum of 50% of the state taxes you paid. You can roll over the credit for years until the system is paid off.
To get the credit from the state, the system has to be installed by a licensed company. It is NOT a DIY installation if you want the credit. I think the power company has the same requirement.
Figure an installed cost at $6-8 a watt for a grid tied system not using batteries. The price has been dropping but the last time I websearched that is the prices I found. If you find cheaper let us know.
Home Power magazine had an article that said that you will only get 65% of the power generated on the roof into your power outlet. That seems like a HUGE amount of loss to me.
Our house uses, on average, 41 KWH per day and our area gets 5 hours of good sunlight a day. If we put up a 5,000 watt system we would generate 25KWH and the system would cost $30,000-40,000. If the loss is really 35% then we would only be generating 3,250 wats or 16 KWH or 40% of our house hold needs.
Eventually the system would cost us $10,500-14,000 after tax credits came in but we would have to have enough cash or take out a loan to buy the system at $30,000-40,000. We would have to have a loan for the better part of a year before the Fed tax credit kicked in and paid us 30%. Then the state credits would take years to roll in.
Oh, by the way, a grid tied system DOES NOT work during a power outage. You would think there would be a way to work around this but I have not found the way. So if you want back up power you need batteries. Ching Ching goes the dollar. Some of the batteries I was looking at were $250 a piece and I would need 6-8 of them. They might last 2 to 8 years. Nobody really knows. So lets say the batteries lasted four years. Every four years I would have to replace $1,500-2,000 worth of batteries which is $31-41 a month in batteries. $30-40 a month is about a third of our average power bill.
Best case, meaning the system cost $6 a watt and we actually got 100% of the power generated at the outlets, the payoff is 12 years not including interest paid on the loan required to buy the system. Worse case the system would take 24 years to pay off if the cost is $8 a watt and we only get 65% of the power generation to use. If batteries are used it really is ugly money wise.
Later,
Dan
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Id love to be able to get off the grid also...and im an electrician to boot. But no mater how i figure out the cost to benefit ratio...including all govt (china funded) incentives, it just doesnt make sense. I HAVE to have a battery backup system where im at, and need the system to work when the grid is down (winter grid kills are frequent here). My usual elect bill averages about $120-130/month, and it would take about 15 years to pay back the investment cost. but in those 15 years there would also be maintainance costs.... i dont think the system would ever pay itself off. Our neighbors live off the grid, and i constantly hear a generator running in the winter. It would cost a small fortune to run my 10k genset for 30 plus days. no thank you.
Ill wait till some better innovation arrives...such as efficient 120/240 AC generation that ive heard about.
Ill wait till some better innovation arrives...such as efficient 120/240 AC generation that ive heard about.