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  1. #1
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    Default Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Since I live in the woods I am fortunate enough to have my own gun range and with all the talk lately about guns on here I thought I would post my experiment from this past weekend.


    Ruger LCR .38spl vs Taurus PT709


    This weekend I performed a highly unscientific, but fun experiment. I stacked a couple of books together (each about 1 inch thick) and shot them from 10 yards to see which penetrated more, the .38spl revolver or 9mm pistol.

    My thoughts were they would be about the same. What do you think? Take a guess.






    Results:

    .38spl Hornady Critical Defense 115gr went through one book and lodged itself in the second book, expanded as expected.
    .38spl Winchester Target 138gr went through one book and the bullet was embedded in the second book without damage to the bullet.
    9mm Hornady Critical Defense 115gr went through both books, expanding as expected.
    9mm Federal Premium Hydra-Shok 135gr went through both books, expanding as expected.
    9mm Winchester Target 115gr went through both books, no expansion as expected.


    The entry hole was about the size of a pencil and the exit hole almost the size of a quarter for the Personal Defense ammo.

    It was pretty neat. I was surprised to see that the books stopped the .38spl, but the 9mm went completely through them.


    Then we shot the books with a .270 Mossberg rifle from 50 yards. That was the end of the books.

    All in all a fun time at the range and we learned a lesson too, take a 9mm not a .38spl when shooting at the library!


    Wes
    Wes
    bx2200
    Taurus PT709 9mm
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  2. #2
    Super Member 2LaneCruzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Quote Originally Posted by wjmst View Post
    Since I live in the woods I am fortunate enough to have my own gun range and with all the talk lately about guns on here I thought I would post my experiment from this past weekend.


    Ruger LCR .38spl vs Taurus PT709


    This weekend I performed a highly unscientific, but fun experiment. I stacked a couple of books together (each about 1 inch thick) and shot them from 10 yards to see which penetrated more, the .38spl revolver or 9mm pistol.

    My thoughts were they would be about the same. What do you think? Take a guess.






    Results:

    .38spl Hornady Critical Defense 115gr went through one book and lodged itself in the second book, expanded as expected.
    .38spl Winchester Target 138gr went through one book and the bullet was embedded in the second book without damage to the bullet.
    9mm Hornady Critical Defense 115gr went through both books, expanding as expected.
    9mm Federal Premium Hydra-Shok 135gr went through both books, expanding as expected.
    9mm Winchester Target 115gr went through both books, no expansion as expected.


    The entry hole was about the size of a pencil and the exit hole almost the size of a quarter for the Personal Defense ammo.

    It was pretty neat. I was surprised to see that the books stopped the .38spl, but the 9mm went completely through them.


    Then we shot the books with a .270 Mossberg rifle from 50 yards. That was the end of the books.

    All in all a fun time at the range and we learned a lesson too, take a 9mm not a .38spl when shooting at the library!


    Wes
    Not what I would have expected, but a little research would confirm your findings:

    9mm vs 38 Special | Ballistics 101
    Have Wings, Will Travel.

  3. #3
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    pretty much what I would expect myself, BUT the guns also have a lot to do with it such a barrel lengths revolver vs semi auto etc
    Mark
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

  4. #4
    Super Member texasjohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Yep, it's generally accepted that 9mm is the minimum "effective" defense round...of course, I wouldn't want to get hit by anything, even a .22
    Interesting to get details from you.

    So your fun experiment confirmed other experiments and people's beliefs...

    I'll bet that the books, having been softened up previously, really did explode from the .270 round!!
    Joy is having the tools you need and needing the tools you have!

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  5. #5
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    We shot some red bricks with a 7MM Mag. It sure made a lot of brick dust... For fun if you have a field with a a good backstop, (which I used to have, but not anymore ) Put out some water filled 1 gallon milk Jugs over a freezing cold night, of course they will freeze solid, and if you have a nice Morning sunrise, you step out and start blasting them with your high powered rifle. It is the most beautiful show of multicolored ice "diamonds" you have ever seen. It is really worth seeing.

    James K0UA
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    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Yeah, you need .38 +p to get it into the 9mm class.

  7. #7
    Elite Member CurlyDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
    Yeah, you need .38 +p to get it into the 9mm class.
    Since .38 +P is readily available and is safe in any modern .38, I think the test was not the correct one. Go ahead and try it again with the .38 +P.
    40 Acres on a hill - fantastic view. JD 110 TLB, 4-n-1, 12" bucket, 18" bucket, Addington thumb, rock bucket (doubles as root grapple)

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Try the same experiment using a 4" 38 and you will see a difference. Snub 38s do not burn all the powder in even a standard 38 spl load. I was recently shown some ballistics that twisted some of my own beliefs...some 380 ammo, out of a 3" or longer barrel, has more energy than any 38 out of a sub 2-1/2" barrel. Since most small 380s have at least a 3" barrel, that makes them better stoppers, generally speaking, than anything in a short barrel 38.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    Agree with OP, fun but pretty much meaningless. I think many of us have done similar "tests". I can think of a lot worse things to spend some time on; need to go out and do some testing myself.

    Oh and all those really in the know won't use anything less than a .45 anyway...
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  10. #10
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compare Penetration of Taurus PT709 to Ruger LCR .38spl with books

    I wouldnt waste money on a .38 special pistol, just up it to a .357 magnum and lthen use the .38 cartridges for target practice. l have a friend who got a deal on a .50 cal Desert Eagle from a guy who only shot it a few times and couldnt handle the recoil. I got rid of my .44 Mags due to recoil and excess noise.
    Now I have .380 for wife, 9mm and .357 for personal defense and .22 Mag for plinking. If anyone is interested in testing penetration power, try a .22 mag with full copper jacket up against any other handgun round. I think you will find that the .22 Mag penetrates more than any other standard high caliber handgun round. Of course the exotic stuff like .22 jet magnum (rare to find),.22 hornet etc. do have more but those are necked down centerfire rounds.
    2010 LS P-7010C 20F/20R gear tractor & FEL, 2009 Kubota B 26 TLB, RTV 900 Kubota,17 foot Lund boat with 70HP motor, 2012-20 ft 12k GVW trailer, 2011- 52" Craftsman ZTR mower, 2013 Ferris Zero Turn, 3 weed whackers, pressure washer, leaf blowers, 7 foot bush hog, 8 foot landscape rake , 8 foot 3 PH disc, 2 row cultivator, 350 amp Miller AC/DC welding machine and all the tools needed to keep them all repaired and running.

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