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  1. #1
    Platinum Member CBW1999's Avatar
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    Northern Vermont on the 45th parallel
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    Kubota 7510, Toro Groundsmaster 217D

    Default Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    As always- a bit behind on getting ready for winter. This is not an urgent need as I am able to haul water daily to the animal shelter but would make life a lot easier. Winter temperature is well below freezing for the most part. All water comes off out well. The total run would be about 175 feet.

    Eventually I will bury a supply line to a yard hydrant. Until then I was thinking of using a heated supply line above ground. I have looked at commercially available heated hose and the cost is too much.

    I have come up with several concepts based on some things I have seen done for water lines running to an outdoor boiler.

    The basic idea- 1 inch black poly water line wrapped in clear bubble wrap and placed inside 4 inch black solid drainpipe. This would be left exposed with the far end set to drip. In theory, sunlight will keep it thawed during the day and dripping will prevent freeze at night. My biggest issue is wasteing water with any type of drip system.

    The "fancier" ideas is to run roof/gutter deiceing line along the black poly water line, foil tape it in place then fabricate the same as the "basic" idea. Wouldn't need to set it to drip but, now it is electricity usage to be concerned about. Secondly, over time would it degrade/melt the buble wrap? The roof/gutter type is the closest to cost effective as well as being able to run that length.

    Now for the kicker- When it comes time, I just assume bury the set up as is to the yard hydrant. Once buried- probably not a need for the heating aspect (although our frost can get deep) and would hate to waste the money.

    What are your thoughts and suggestions?
    I thank God everyday for all of the blessings he has given me- especially for the one's I do not recognize or see!

  2. #2
    Platinum Member Dr Dave's Avatar
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    sioux city, ia
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    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Get 1'' blue Pex, and a frost free hydrant, buried 6' down should eliminate any problems. Its cheaper to do it right now, and save money and not worry about freezing over the winter.

    Dave

  3. #3
    Platinum Member CBW1999's Avatar
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    Kubota 7510, Toro Groundsmaster 217D

    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
    Get 1'' blue Pex, and a frost free hydrant, buried 6' down should eliminate any problems. Its cheaper to do it right now, and save money and not worry about freezing over the winter.

    Dave
    I would have to rent a mini excavator to be able to trench for this project. Financially, that won't happen till next spring at the earliest.

    I suspect there is an advantage of using pex as compared to the "traditional" black water line? Can you shed some light on going that route? I'm open to suggestions..
    I thank God everyday for all of the blessings he has given me- especially for the one's I do not recognize or see!

  4. #4
    Elite Member nybirdman's Avatar
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    north of upstate ny
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    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
    Get 1'' blue Pex, and a frost free hydrant, buried 6' down should eliminate any problems. Its cheaper to do it right now, and save money and not worry about freezing over the winter.

    Dave
    PERFECT ANSWER,do it right once and be done.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member
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    Olalla WA, Kitsap Peninsula, West of Seattle
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    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Pex comes in 100' rolls or longer and very flexible. It will expand when frozen and not break. If you do your above ground solution; I guarantee you will wish you hadn't and money down the drain. If a buried line is done per plumbing code it has to be buried beneth the frost line. Never lived where it is a cold as you get. I know folks in Alaska (-40-50) and they bury 6' down. Trying to prevent freezing by flowing water gets dicey when you get below 20 degrees. Years ago i was working in a paper mill, we installed 500' of 4" steel water line out in the open. It was 10 degrees with a 40 mph wind. Turned on the line and never got water out the other end. It froze somewhere in the middle on the way at 125 psi. Takes more that a drip and then only in mildly freezing weather. I do not envy your winters, here we are lucky to see 10 days a winter below 25 degrees.

    Ron

  6. #6
    Super Member tcreeley's Avatar
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    Hudson, Maine
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    2003 NH TC30

    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    We fill our horses' water tank weekly. We use a good quality garden hose that stays flexible in the winter. Then we disconnect the hose and drain it carefully. I have toyed with putting up a poly pipe with a continuous slope to the tank. I figure then I could fill the tank and when I shut it off and disconnected it from the house- it would drain itself. Frost depth to be safe in central Maine is 5' deep. I can live without the hydrant and permanent line. The dirt is rocky and hardpan begins at 4'. -Not fun to dig.
    When draining a hose- disconnect from house (remove nozzle too), leave it in a line. Hold it in a loop above your head and pull it to you- coiling the drained end. As you pull it- and hold it above your head, the water drains out the far end. Take your time to give the water a chance to flow out. If you have a deck to stand on - all the better. It is possible to do this with temps well below below 0. Use a styrofoam faucet cover. I shut mine off in the house, then that allows the outside faucet to drain before I shut that off and cover it up. I hate frozen lines! Filling the tank when it is sunny and 15 degrees is a cakewalk when you get used to it! Drain and store the hose in short sections - helps with preventing it from freezing. When you have bad luck- overnight in the bathtub thaws the hose.
    Drips with VT. temps will never work- will freeze every time- the whole way.

    5/8 garden hose, stock tank heater - floating or sit on bottom of tank (either keeps water from freezing), you can make your own extension cord by running UF (white, black,bare) # 12 or 14 gauge wire out to tank over the ground (don't run it over with mower or snow blower or plow) to the tank from an outlet/grounding wet outlet, etc.. Just put plug on one end and plug in on the other end.
    This is not code of course- jury-rigged, but works. Voltage drop should not be a problem as the stock heater is not a high wattage. If in doubt- use #12 gauge UF wire. Use all three wires so that it is grounded. Support the tank well-- couple level pallets covered with boards or plywood, etc.. I like metal/galvanized tanks- no problem with heater, lasts forever. Ice will crack the poly tanks.
    -good luck.
    Last edited by tcreeley; 11-21-2012 at 10:50 PM.
    various items

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Pete Judd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    When I ran my water from the well to the building site, 25+years ago, I rented a walk behind "ditch witch". Didn't cost much, I think about 50 bucks for an afternoon, and found that it would dig about 6 feet per minute in our soil at a depth of around 2.5 feet. I ran a trench 175 feet from the well to where the house is now in no time even up a steep bank. I also ran another couple of 600 foot trenches for other hydrants around the place all in less than 4 hours. Filled the trenches with 1 inch black poly pipe that they sell at HD. I think that you should just do it right the first time, and not have to worry about it, and redo it next year.
    Yanmar 186D 1981
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member
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    Central NH
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    John Deere 4300

    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    I've seen a product used in outdoor wood boiler setups which is a pex tube surrounded by insulation and a 4-inch corrugated pipe. Might be helpful for this application.

  9. #9
    Super Star Member
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Quote Originally Posted by CBW1999 View Post
    As always- a bit behind on getting ready for winter. This is not an urgent need as I am able to haul water daily to the animal shelter but would make life a lot easier. Winter temperature is well below freezing for the most part. All water comes off out well. The total run would be about 175 feet.

    Eventually I will bury a supply line to a yard hydrant. Until then I was thinking of using a heated supply line above ground. I have looked at commercially available heated hose and the cost is too much.

    I have come up with several concepts based on some things I have seen done for water lines running to an outdoor boiler.

    The basic idea- 1 inch black poly water line wrapped in clear bubble wrap and placed inside 4 inch black solid drainpipe. This would be left exposed with the far end set to drip. In theory, sunlight will keep it thawed during the day and dripping will prevent freeze at night. My biggest issue is wasteing water with any type of drip system.

    The "fancier" ideas is to run roof/gutter deiceing line along the black poly water line, foil tape it in place then fabricate the same as the "basic" idea. Wouldn't need to set it to drip but, now it is electricity usage to be concerned about. Secondly, over time would it degrade/melt the buble wrap? The roof/gutter type is the closest to cost effective as well as being able to run that length.

    Now for the kicker- When it comes time, I just assume bury the set up as is to the yard hydrant. Once buried- probably not a need for the heating aspect (although our frost can get deep) and would hate to waste the money.

    What are your thoughts and suggestions?
    Im not sure of your budget, but the self regulating heat tape below can just be taped straight along the pipe. There is no danger from overheating in any configuration because it automatically adjusts heat on every portion of its length and puts out no heat in any place that is warm. Scroll to the bottom of the page for the ready made which is much cheaper. ... but not cheap.

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  10. #10
    Elite Member nybirdman's Avatar
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    north of upstate ny
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    Default Re: Need input on insulated/heated water supply hose-

    Quote Originally Posted by TCJatko View Post
    I've seen a product used in outdoor wood boiler setups which is a pex tube surrounded by insulation and a 4-inch corrugated pipe. Might be helpful for this application.
    That is good stuff but is two lines and about $12.00/ft.

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