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  1. #171
    Super Member N80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I don't think you can draw any conclusions by comparing coyotes with wolves. As mentioned, Ivory Bill and Pileated woodpeckers look alike and share the same range and requirements for food. One is extinct. One is thriving. The one that is extinct is extinct because of its behavioral needs, not physiologic. I suspect the same is true with wolves. Ivory Bills required huge expanses of land for courtship and territorial reasons so there were never as many per square mile. Likewise, wolf numbers were probably never anywhere near coyote numbers.

    The point that we could wipe out coyotes probably isn't relative. It might be a possibility, but it is a tremendous improbability.
    George
    South Carolina

    The size of government is inversely proprotional to the degree of freedom it affords.

    "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

  2. #172
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    DDT could wipe out malaria for all time in less then a years time. Instead someone makes up an unsubstantiated story about DDT may be causing thin eagle eggs and the pesticide is banned. As a result, millions of people die needlessly every year from malaria and they call themselves compassionate. Someone explain what good the mosquito is?

  3. #173
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by N80 View Post
    I don't think you can draw any conclusions by comparing coyotes with wolves. As mentioned, Ivory Bill and Pileated woodpeckers look alike and share the same range and requirements for food. One is extinct. One is thriving. The one that is extinct is extinct because of its behavioral needs, not physiologic. I suspect the same is true with wolves. Ivory Bills required huge expanses of land for courtship and territorial reasons so there were never as many per square mile. Likewise, wolf numbers were probably never anywhere near coyote numbers.

    The point that we could wipe out coyotes probably isn't relative. It might be a possibility, but it is a tremendous improbability.
    Ivory Bills require old stands of pine trees that are cleared with wild fires which is a very specific environment. Wolves live all over the world in areas that really surprised me.

    -800px-wolf_distr-gif

    This is from File:Wolf distr.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Surviving in those locations really surprised me. They seem pretty danged adaptable to live in some of those areas. Red Wolves in NC are living in at least five counties down east and while these are not the most populated counties in NC, it ain't the middle of no where either. A web page talking about the Red Wolf recovery, said,
    HABITAT: The last red wolves were found in coastal prairie and marsh habitat because this was the last area in which the animals were allowed to remain. Any habitat area in the southeastern United States of sufficient size, which provides adequate food, water, and the basic cover requirement of heavy vegetation, should be suitable habitat for the red wolf. Telemetry studies indicate that red wolf home range requirements vary from about 25 to 50 square miles.
    Red Wolves could easily live on our land, we have the cover, food and water. Apparently Red Wolves will reduce Coyote population, well, they will, if the two are not busy mating with each other.

    Later,
    Dan

  4. #174
    Super Member N80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by sdkubota View Post
    DDT could wipe out malaria for all time in less then a years time. Instead someone makes up an unsubstantiated story about DDT may be causing thin eagle eggs and the pesticide is banned. As a result, millions of people die needlessly every year from malaria and they call themselves compassionate. Someone explain what good the mosquito is?
    As they say, the road to hades is paved with good intentions. Most people think that banning DDT was a triumph of environmentalism over industrialism and greed. It was a media and public education hoopla of epic proportions that has still not subsided. When in fact it is still considered the most effective form of mosquito control and as mentioned, millions die because we want to protect birds. In the US, dead birds are a much better media tool than dead Africans.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a bird guy. Love wildlife. But the issue is that there are no solutions, whether it be doing something or doing nothing that are without consequence. In the case of DDT, the developed world got its panties in a wad about bird protection and the third world suffered for it. Sometimes you have to make hard choices.


    Dan, the point is, Ivory bills ate the same stuff and lived in the same size hole in a tree as a pileated. Ivorys are gone, pileated still here. It is rarely safe to compare the success/failure of one species with that of another when trying to draw management/protection conclusions.
    George
    South Carolina

    The size of government is inversely proprotional to the degree of freedom it affords.

    "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

  5. #175
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    A pack of coyotes (Eastern) can and will run down an adult deer. The tendency is the deer will tire first so unless it can get a good head start or get around some obstacles the coyote cannot, typically it will tire first over distance. Typically they are successful in winter and they will take turns tiring the deer out. Coyotes do not give up easily and will trail the same deer for hours.

    http://hunting.outdoorzy.com/coyote-kills-deer-photos/

    Personally I like the sound of coyotes and like that they are around. I do understand some individuals concerns over their pets and livestock however around my parts the number of livestock killed by coyotes is low based on compensation requests by farmers. The deer population has taken a hit and it's possibly due to coyotes, hunters and vehicles is my first guess as I know their numbers are down significantly.
    2011 Kubota MX5100, BH92, BH BB72, Walco Bush Hog and Snowblower, Wallenstein 310 Splitter & Forks

  6. #176
    Elite Member Ken45101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle241 View Post
    Personally I like the sound of coyotes and like that they are around. I do understand some individuals concerns over their pets and livestock however around my parts the number of livestock killed by coyotes is low based on compensation requests by farmers. The deer population has taken a hit and it's possibly due to coyotes, hunters and vehicles is my first guess as I know their numbers are down significantly.
    You are welcome to listen to the sound all you want. I would much rather listen to wolves.

    Deer numbers, AFAIK, are not down here in Ohio. Plenty of people getting hurt by them on the roads. A few weeks ago, a school bus collided with a deer locally, five were taken to the hospital.

    Ken

  7. #177
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I prefer wolves too however they have been essentially eliminated here.
    2011 Kubota MX5100, BH92, BH BB72, Walco Bush Hog and Snowblower, Wallenstein 310 Splitter & Forks

  8. #178
    Veteran Member Redbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Male mosquitoes do a lot of pollination, especially up north where bees are not prevalent. Everything has it's place in the grand scheme of things...
    Dave

    "If your sport does not put grease, blood, or dirt under your fingernails, then it's just a game!"

  9. #179
    Super Member N80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbug View Post
    Male mosquitoes do a lot of pollination, especially up north where bees are not prevalent. Everything has it's place in the grand scheme of things...
    They must pollinate kudzu down here........
    George
    South Carolina

    The size of government is inversely proprotional to the degree of freedom it affords.

    "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

  10. #180
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by N80 View Post
    They must pollinate kudzu down here........

    LMAO, amen to that !

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