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  1. #11
    Elite Member Ken45101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I have seen pairs of coyotes hunting together, probably for rodents. I've also seen a pair of them within 50 feet of our grazing horses. The horses were paying absolutely no attention to the coyotes, no more than they would our dogs. Apparently the horses are used to the coyotes being around.

    Over the years we have had a couple of small dogs disappear that we suspect the coyotes may have been responsible for. OTOH, last winter our two medium sized dogs killed a coyote about 500' from the house.

  2. #12
    Platinum Member westcliffe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I honestly think there is a strong connection between predation and the age and condition of the coyotes. The older coyotes get the habits of the people on the farm figured out and become much bolder. If they have any kind of health issue (dental or mange), they try to get the most bang for the buck in their hunting efforts. A coyote has to catch a lot of mice or rabbits to provide near as much meat as a lamb. It is just that to get the lamb, they have to go a lot closer to where people are than where they can get the other wild critters.

    That is why I think there is a sharp change in predation once you kill a few of the older coyotes. 1- the older experienced coyote is no longer leading the hunt with their experience in taking down the larger animals and 2 - they are no longer teaching their offspring the tricks of the trade. I believe that many of the kills where the animal was not eaten were "training exercises" for the pups.

    Now I am expecting a new wave of attacks by the pups who got booted from the dens and having to fend for themselves. These probably have not yet had much in the way of interaction with people and some negative interactions as early as possible may go a long way to keeping them on the straight and narrow, or at least have them pick a different location. At the present rate, their populations seem to be increasing everywhere and the mild winters of the last 3 years are certainly a contributing factor.

    This year, the deer population is Southern MI seems to be in a worse state than any other year I have seen. We have been hit hard by EHD and a DNR study on fawn predation has surprised the conservation officers because the kill rate was considerably higher than they thought. I have not heard of whether the paper has been published in the public domain, but the DNR range officers were discussing it once they had it circulated internally. I think the study was carried out in upper MI where the winter tends to be the dominating factor in deer numbers, but their findings showed that coyotes were the dominating factor, followed by winter and then by wolves. The wolf problem is more localized and where there are packs, they may be the local dominating factor, because they kill coyotes too.

  3. #13
    Super Member N80's Avatar
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    Kubota L4400 4wd w/LA 703 FEL

    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I have heard that a donkey in a pasture wards off coyotes. Might be complete folklore but like Ken mentioned the grown cows and horses around here pay very little attention to the coyotes even when close.

    But, the more I read and the more I witness the more convinced I am that they need shooting as often as possible. I know it doesn't make a big dent in the population but it can't hurt. It used to be that I rarely shot at them because I did not want to mess up my deer hunt. I'm thinking about actively hunting them now.
    George
    South Carolina

    The size of government is inversely proprotional to the degree of freedom it affords.

    "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

  4. #14
    Platinum Member westcliffe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    The problem with donkeys and Lamas is that they can sometimes pose a greater risk to the landowner than to the predators. Many of these critters have a pronounced mean streak. I believe a well known guy in Texas was kicked to death by his donkey this last year ? Don't recall if he was a mayor or held some other political office. Horses are not exactly defenseless, nor as stupid as sheep. Often enough, if one watches them, they will see the predators first because of their height and they do pay attention to what is going on.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member nybirdman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    I am in Northern NY right at the Canadian border.We have had coyotes for as long as I can remember.Our coyotes are larger up to 60lbs,average 30/35lbs.Certainly able to take down an adult deer.We call and hunt them with Fox hounds,last year the group I hunt with took 27,and it was a down year;40 is about average.All you can do is keep them in check ,they can never be totaly eliminated.I have a friend that used to raise Fallow deer.....coyotes broke in to his encloseure and wiped out his herd.

  6. #16
    Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    They killed my cat...and now must die!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Donkeys dislike dogs and coyotes because these resemble wolves, which they fear. Coyotes adjust their breeding based on the food supply to maintain their population: more food, more coyotes, less food, less coyotes.

  8. #18
    Super Member Robert_in_NY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    This has been something that always interested me. I hear people talk about "packs" of coyotes and being scared of them yet I have never seen more then one coyote at any time. They will kill a fawn and other small animals but a full grown deer can kill a coyote if need be. I think most people are just scared of them because of stories and movies and when it gets dark they panic. I have never seen a coyote actually catch anything but one of my helpers has seen a coyote chase a fawn into my field as she was raking hay on it. The fawn ran around for a while before it was caught and dragged away. Other then that I have only ever seen a fox catching mice in a field. It was actually quite comical as it was catching a lot of mice to take to the youngsters. Had around 4 or 5 mice in its mouth as it was trying to catch another with its front paws.


    God must love stupid people; He made so many

  9. #19
    Super Member Robert_in_NY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    Quote Originally Posted by nybirdman View Post
    I am in Northern NY right at the Canadian border.We have had coyotes for as long as I can remember.Our coyotes are larger up to 60lbs,average 30/35lbs.Certainly able to take down an adult deer.We call and hunt them with Fox hounds,last year the group I hunt with took 27,and it was a down year;40 is about average.All you can do is keep them in check ,they can never be totaly eliminated.I have a friend that used to raise Fallow deer.....coyotes broke in to his encloseure and wiped out his herd.
    While I am not disputing what happened at your friends farm I do want to mention my own experience with our deer. We have only ever had one coyote come up to our pens (that we have seen at least) and it came to the fawn pen. Couldn't get in and was peppered with a shot shell for even coming up this close. Our adult deer have had dogs come to the fence and never have we had any dogs or similar get into the fence. However, the deer will panic and crash the fence out of fear. If the fence wasn't built properly then I could see a dog or coyote being able to get in but other wise a deer will kill itself trying to get away from the threat. We have had deer break the antlers, cut their heads up and damage our fences when dogs have came near. Never had them make it out of the fence though. We are constantly checking our fences though and replacing broken posts and making sure the fence is anchored to the ground.


    God must love stupid people; He made so many

  10. #20
    Platinum Member westcliffe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coyotes and Deer

    It is more common to see pairs than single. Singles are usually juveniles who have not yet established their own territory and mated up. Or if older, perhaps the mate has died. It looks like infertile females get abandoned. Until the pups have grown, there could be a family group of 4 or 5. That is what people will refer to as a pack. It is not a pack in the way that one has with wolves, but if you are on your own and not armed, it certainly can be intimidating. Even one can be intimidating if it approaches closely and with persistence while licking its lips. Lets not forget the dead Canadian singer and all it took was 2 coyotes. She was partially consumed while alive. That is not the fate that most of us look forward to.

    There is a nice youtube video of a daft Canadian that has a coyote try to gnaw on his boots while walking down a road. At some point he makes his shoes squeak and that gets the coyotes attention, since it sounds like prey.

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