dave1949
Super Star Member
All of the space IS "our" space. Who else's could it be? That's why most people feel like the space needs to be protected and that we are the ones that have to do it. So not sure what your point is. And sure we often try to eliminate species. We've been successful with small pox and we've tried real hard with mosquitos. But that is a pretty silly concern in the context of this conversation...at least where I live. Deer populations are quite large and healthy. Coyote populations are EXPLODING and in such a way that they are jeopardizing the existence of a number of other species....specifically foxes. So management, by humans, becomes and issue.
We have not eliminated small pox: Three children die of smallpox in Khairpur | The Nation But, that is being picky. Deer populations in the East benefit from timber harvesting, from farmlands, and from rural sprawl which increases deer feeding ability, leaves the deer and removes the predators. Those facts have a lot more to do with post-Columbian deer populations than hunting or wildlife management plans supported by hunting. In fact, deer populations have exploded beyond any ability of traditional hunting control, present a health danger to humans via Lyme Disease, and economic damage to agriculture. It's hard to characterize that as successful management.
This is patently untrue and unsupportable. Much of the conservation efforts done in the early 20th century had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone would call a liberal. Furthermore, the greatest positive impact on wildlife in this country, now and in the last 75 or so years, has come directly from resources associated with hunting and game management. Sure there are liberal hunters......but far, far fewer than conservative ones. So let's not descend into hyperbole about liberals saving the planet....it just won't float.
It is not hyperbole. It is non-liberals--whatever you wish to call them--who constantly promote and politically defend the very actions that degrade the planet. They are attacking the Clean Air and Water Act, they would permit strip mining anywhere, they would drill for gas and oil in National Parks, the list goes on and on. Without constant opposition from liberals to these activities, there would be very little that is wild or clean. Part of your confusion is because those conservatives who, in the past championed planet-saving ideas, are not today's conservatives. Would you call the Bristol Bay, AK Pebble Mine proposal a target for today's conservatives? It is a target for groups like the NRDC who would certainly be defined by liberalism. Sure, there are several trout and fisheries groups joining the battle, but where are their conservative supporters in the political bodies that make the decisions? Where are the conservatives who would insist that fracking comes under the Clean Water Act? Fracking uses and pollutes enormous amounts of water, but it's not an area of concern to the EPA? C'mon George, what you are selling is nonsense.
Again, this is a bit silly. You might as well say the same thing about cock roaches. The one thing that is virtually indisputed by everyone is that almost nothing that humans can or will do will diminish coyote populations to a level of concern. It just is not possible.
This is correct, but herbivores have been managed with HUGE success by humans alone. There are more whitetail deer on this continent that when columbas arrived. Entirely due to managed hunting. Coyotes as a form of deer management is like managing a chicken coop with a weasel.
The question of what is "our space" is simple: Where do humans draw the line when balancing the needs of our species against others? When is it in our own best long-term interests to promote the health of a biologically diverse planet? Where does the "death of a thousand cuts" end? That is exactly what we are doing to the planet every time we are not willing to draw an absolute line in the sand that says, "This is out of bounds."
We are grossly overconfident that we can protect the planet through regulation of permitted harmful activities, and today's conservatives don't really believe in regulation. That is not the fault of today's liberals. If you want to have a rebirth of true conservatism, liberals are not stopping you.