Neighbor removed my property line pin

[Chiefbuck]

Boomer, The guy must have a mental problem but you must remain calm, be patient and consider all options. Don't act in haste or allow the idiot to upset you. I had a problem with some teens crossing my yard and causing some minor damage, I asked them to stop, that failed but a fence that would fail if someone tried to climb it seemed to work OK. I also used a small steel wire that was 6" off the ground to make sure that some flower "plantings" were properly alligned was installed directly in their path, but the wire was difficult to see after dark. I did place small signs and survey tape on the wire to warn people not to trip etc. The next step was going to be an electric fence or a garden pond, it wasn't necessary but I did have to tighten the fence a tad, once. If his home is nearby he may appreciate hearing some polka music early in the morning as well.

 

[sixdogs]

Sixdogs...

you posted a link to your thread about moving your trees and in the first post you said
"this is a new style shovel I got at Lowe's. Best shovel I ever owned."

but the photo is history. Any chance you remember it and have a picture? Thanks if you do!!


/QUOTE]

Here it is. It's not a shovel for maximum volume of sand on a dry summer's day but is perfect for digging holes because the point and taper slide into the ground with reduced resistance. Might work really well with your slight stony gravel soil with rocks since the point would slip off the rock. Anyway, here it is.





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[prctr]

Property boundaries & fence lines are always a potential cause of major neighbour disputes.
I have found through bitter experience ,in the long run it pays to get the boundaries sorted & defined ASAP irrepective of any short term angst that may be created.
Over here (Australia) in some States there are several recent legal precedents which have seen addtional land "acquired"/property boundaries redefined because a property owner innocently without understanding the ramifications,has in the law's "eye's" willingly allowed their neighbour to access/use land for some years free of charge .......can't recall the exact legal term but it is something along the lines of "land acquired through abandoned occupancy"....
IMO - I'd be seeking legal advice specific to your area as the your neighbours underground phone line probably consistutes a potential "easement" on your land & may be the cause for dissent, devaluation &/or limitations on that use of your land in the future...

I believe the term used in most states in the USA is "adverse possession." If, in Georgia for example, you allow a neighbor to use your property for 21 years in an "open and notorious" way, like putting a driveway in, or creating some other type of encroachment, such as a fence or well house, they not only acquire rights to the land, they OWN it! Under color of title, the period is 7 years. Check with your surveyor, yes, but also with an attorney. It pays to deal with this issue immediately and to file something with the courts, if necessary.

To start, however, a certified, registered letter outlining and specifically describing his encroachments and accompanied by a certified copy of the plat should be sufficient LEGAL NOTICE to him of his trespass(s) to your property. He cannot then claim that he was unaware, nor is his use of your property then unchallenged. This avoids adverse possession because you aren't sleeping on your rights.

NOTE: This is not intended as legal advice, just some common sense property line dispute information. Each state is different, but property laws are fairly uniform since they date from medieval England.

 

[MarkV]

Here's what I hope is a brief...yeah right like that'll ever happen lol...summary of the events start to finish.

In 96 we both agreed to my planting the Arb's ON the property line along his driveway, starting at one corner point of my property and ending at his fence line, which ran to the other corner point of my property down by his house. No problems at all for 8 years and I never once did any trimming to these trees. In 2004 I put in a new 3 acre lawn and after I finished or there a bouts, he made a comment to me about removing his fence. Don't recall exact words, but it had to do with upkeep and appearance. I then told him my plan to eventually continue my tree line to the corner by his house. I asked if he would leave the fence so it could serve the same purpose for his putting it there in the first place...keeping vehicles where they belong. He knew exactly what I was talking about with regards to idiots blowing through my field on the other end where the Arb's were. He agreed and all was well...or so I thought.

I don't want to make a long story any longer other than to say I had/still have several major projects going on and was involved deeply with them at the time. I honestly believe some of his hostility directed at me is due to jealousy. Jealous of what I've been doing with my property. This fueled his decision to rip out the fence I'm sure. He didn't like the fence anymore and figured if I could spend money elsewhere, I should also spend it on the trees I promised. 2007 arrives and he rips it out without a word to me. He broke his word plain and simple. I remained quiet wondering if he had any intention of planting something...nope, nothing. Over the next few months I witnessed countless examples of exactly what I knew would happen...idiots with no common sense! Understand this...parking or driving on my lawn isn't the end of the world, but causing damage fries my backside head to toe. You guys already know the damage tractor tires can do on turns. Guess what vehicles can do over and over in the same spot?

Several months of keeping it bottled up was my downfall. And the kid who popped my top was just a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...just like my neighbors parents who were out of my view at the time. Had I known they were there, there's not a doubt in my mind I would've remained quiet. The sad part though is that they had to be victimized by my outburst that was really directed at my neighbor himself. A few days after my outburst he approached me in an apologetic sort of way. He asked what happened and informed me his parents heard what I said. I apologized for the outburst and asked what about the agreement...you gave me your word? Him...that was 3 years ago. >edited to add<...When I mentioned the damage from his visitors vehicles he asked why I didn't say something to him. Say what? why should I have too? You already knew it was going to happen without the fence and even told me you saw it a few times. Why didn't YOU say something to your visitors?

Fine I thought, I see how it is and took matters into my own hands. Hired the surveyor and found out the existing trees were 8" inside the prop line along the driveway {and the perpendicular treeline was 3'+ inside...another neighbors border}. So I planted the new trees 8" off like the others, put another perpendicular tree line in, 3' off the line across his front yard and moved on. I didn't ask and he said nothing about my continuing the tree line along his driveway...8" off or not... other than his dislike for planting them across the front of his house. Early this year, after 5 years of no contact he asks me to trim them back along his driveway so he wouldn't lose the parking spots for guests. Trim what back I thought, these trees were barely 24" wide at the base. Even mentioned the fact that here you ripped out the fence for the sole purpose of wanting me to plant trees. I did and now you want me to cut them? Your flipping nuts and blew him off. Tough tulips pal...deal with it. Understand some of what I just said were thoughts and not actual words.

Did the trimming...actually thinning is the correct word. He commented a couple times about not seeing any difference. Yet others easily noticed the difference. See where this is going? He's trying to push my buttons...trying REAL hard and I keep refusing to acknowledge him and his games. Hard pill to swallow, but what choice do I have other than move the trees to a point 3' off the line. At maturity these Arb's reach a 6' spread at the base. At 3' off the line, just like the tree lines that run perpendicular to his driveway on each end are planted, I don't have to worry about them growing over the property line if I don't do any trimming.

Now I want to go back and respond to some of you individually but I'm beat, long day, so unfortunately it'll have to wait til tomorrow nite...thanks for the patience

TC

TC I know you are passionate and upset about this whole issue but it seems some facts have gotten lost in the conversation. You need to sit back, calm down and rethink this thing. All these replies about adverse possession are pointless. You have said all the trees are at least 8" on your property, what is the problem? Yes he can trim them on his side, sounds like he has wanted to but ask you to so you would not get upset. Why would you get upset, he has to look at them if they are hacked up. He expressed an interest in removing his fence and waited 3 years for you to plant the trees that you promised, your words. After 3 years of waiting he removed the fence and you think "He broke his word plain and simple." It was 3 years of looking at a fence he didn't want, that seems patient to me. Your latest upset has to do with leaves and your mulch being messed up by his mower and blower. The trees are only 8" off the line, your mulch must be on his side, where he blows his leaves, on his property, is his business. The survey pin should not have been moved. We really don't know if he did it, if it was intentionally or unintentionally removed, if the phone company did it or someone else. Your not going to prove it so good luck getting him to pay to replace it. I guess you can move all those trees 3' in and then he can't trim them so his side is ugly and your mulch will be on your property. You better move them a little farther in so you have a walkway to work on his side of the trees without trespassing. It looks like your relationship with him is going that way. Guess I am just too slow to see what you gain with all this effort, expense, stress and anger.

MarkV

 

[CBW1999]

If I may preach to the choir.... Take lots of pictures of the damage to your mulch around the trees- dates and times of when the damage was done.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see that he intended to cause physical damage to your property. Undoubtedly Criminal law was broken by your neighbor as well as him being civilly liable.. Add it to the "file" for the future or contact the authorities now. In my experience (personal and professional) this guy needs to enter the system to finally get it through his head that he just can't be doing this stuff.

Somewhere previous- someone mentioned a "game camera". excellent idea but even better- wireless video/audio cameras that either have its own hard drive or connects into a computer have gotten less expensive. Would give you live action when something happens. For what it appears you have spent/will spend on the surveyor, trees, labor etc. A surveillance system is a fraction of that cost.

Wireless Mini Hidden Color CCTV Video Camera Spy CAN203 | eBay

This is very similar to one i bought to use on my rc airplane (now it is less expensive). Works really well both audio and video. something like this (but more cameras) just might do the trick.

 

[TCBoomer]

TC I know you are passionate and upset about this whole issue but it seems some facts have gotten lost in the conversation. You need to sit back, calm down and rethink this thing. All these replies about adverse possession are pointless. You have said all the trees are at least 8" on your property, what is the problem? Yes he can trim them on his side, sounds like he has wanted to but ask you to so you would not get upset. Why would you get upset, he has to look at them if they are hacked up. He expressed an interest in removing his fence and waited 3 years for you to plant the trees that you promised, your words. After 3 years of waiting he removed the fence and you think "He broke his word plain and simple." It was 3 years of looking at a fence he didn't want, that seems patient to me. Your latest upset has to do with leaves and your mulch being messed up by his mower and blower. The trees are only 8" off the line, your mulch must be on his side, where he blows his leaves, on his property, is his business. The survey pin should not have been moved. We really don't know if he did it, if it was intentionally or unintentionally removed, if the phone company did it or someone else. Your not going to prove it so good luck getting him to pay to replace it. I guess you can move all those trees 3' in and then he can't trim them so his side is ugly and your mulch will be on your property. You better move them a little farther in so you have a walkway to work on his side of the trees without trespassing. It looks like your relationship with him is going that way. Guess I am just too slow to see what you gain with all this effort, expense, stress and anger.

MarkV

Passionate...yes Absolutely!!

Upset...yes but only in the heat of the moment and rightfully so. Disrespect is the first thing that comes to mind. And even after at least a dozen if not more incidents, I've never once lost it with this guy. Maybe I should have retaliated. Instead I've dealt with it by myself for the past 5 years and only recently put it out here on the forum to vent a little and see if my perspective is out of line. So far nothings been said that has convinced me to think otherwise.

Facts getting lost?? Not sure I follow you. My opening post questioned the legality of someone removing a property line pin. Everything else that followed, albeit a little wordy on my part...pertained to the backstory. It's all relevant and there's even more that I left out.

I agree the adverse possession comments aren't really applicable in this situation. I'm fully aware and for the most part, knowledgeable about the adverse possession statues for CT. I have ZERO interest in taking anyones land using this approach or any other way for that matter. I do know for a fact that I could pursue and be awarded ownership of the area (about 28" X 120') where the 40 mature trees have branches extending over the boundary line...this was discovered during a recent conversation with an atty and someone from the zoning board...both friends of mine. But what would be gained other than more hard feelings....nothing. All I want is for this guy to leave me and my property alone. He can do as he pleases anywhere else...just leave me and mine alone. Is that asking too much? Furthermore...zoning regulations limit his rights to what he is legally allowed to do with this 25' wide access strip...aka his driveway...this I just discovered this past week. The further this goes on the deeper he's digging himself into a hole.

Back in 96 this neighbor agreed to my planting ON the boundary line along a portion of his driveway with the understanding...not that I gave my word or promised...to continue this tree line to his corner of our properties. At NO time was any time frame discussed, just that I'd do it when time and $$ was available. The 8" came to being when my surveyor informed me that's where they actually were. When I continued the tree line in 07 I instructed my tree guy to follow the existing tree line. As it turns out, midway down this line the tree line stands 24" away from a marked boundary pin...nothing to dispute there. At the corner where the missing pin was located, my measurements show the tree line to be 36" off the line(I thought it was less), so I'll wait for the surveyor to reset the pin to be certain. This end of the tree line is where he feels he is losing his parking space due to the growing trees yet it now appears he isn't. If he doesn't know where his boundary line is, that's his problem. I paid for a survey...so can he! When he asked me to trim them back last spring for parking purposes (which I just recently found out is a zoning violation for that access strip) I baulked with severe sarcasm...and rightfully deserved based on his actions during the last 5 years. Thought it over for a day or so and went back to him and said I'd reconsider out of fairness and respect for himself and his property. I now think I was a fool to do it but it was the right thing to do. Spent the better part of the summer doing just that and found he still wasn't satisfied...he told me they didn't look any different. Sure he could trim them himself and either butcher or kill them and be responsible. But that's just another civil matter I'd rather avoid.

You ask what's the problem...the problem is twofold and I'll share the blame but only up to a point. He agreed to planting on the boundary line knowing the growth habits of Arborvitaes...and I knew very little about them at the time. He gave his word to leave the fence. His wife is the one behind the decision to remove it btw, not him...he told me this himself. He removed the fence knowing full well what would result. That's the 2nd problem. He broke his word not me. My share of the blame is my -eye for an eye- response by continuing the tree line even further on MY property across his front yard. Everything that's happened since is collateral damage. He made his bed...lie in it just as I've done. 3 years is not that long of time considering the grand scheme of what I'm doing with my property. As I already said, jealousy abounds due to everything I've done here and friends of his family have told me that. He forced my hand with continuing the tree line and he got what he deserved IMO. Some like yourself may disagree and that's fine, but unless you walked in my shoes, you can't even begin to understand. It took a great deal of self control on my part to restrain myself from retaliating and I can stand proud knowing I did. My decision to move the trees to a point of 3' off the line is the only logical way to end this from my perspective. Sure he may continue his antics and when he does I'll deal with it appropriately without the burden of being at his mercy because of where the tree line is. I won't allow it to become ugly or allow myself to get arrested, but I will say this...karma is a powerful word!

It's true the leaves, the mulch, the dog crap and all the other antics like taking stones from my stonewall, taking my fence charger and then tossing the balled up fence wire under the mature trees which I just found this past spring...and the list goes on...is not a world ending event. It just proves what type of person he really is. We were good friends and neighbors for over 17 years and it all came to an end over something so stupid. But I'm old enough to recognize its not worth losing sleep over. Maybe I was a little emotional with my explanations here, but that's who I am. All of this could have been avoided if he had simply said to me "hey my wife is tired of looking at the fence and wants me to take it down" Giving me a heads up would of at least allowed me to come up with a plan. If I got what I deserved so be it...but so did he. If you or anyone else here can convince me to think otherwise, I'm all ears.

As for proving who removed the corner pin...I set a trap, the bait was taken and I now have proof of who removed it. And it was intentional as I expected all along.

Once again I got a little wordy so shoot me But honestly Mark, I do appreciate any and all criticism because it lets me see where my faults are so thanks for chiming in

Merry Xmas and happy holidays!

 

[TCBoomer]

Thanks sixdogs!!
Looks to be a useful tool and one that I don't have.
I'll pick one up

 

[TCBoomer]

last but not least before I hit the sack...I have the CT statue in print regarding the pin removal.


Connecticut General Statutes 47-34a - Unlawful destruction, disturbance or removal of surveyor's marker or monument
Connecticut General Statutes > Title 47 > Chapter 821 > ｧ 47-34a - Unlawful destruction, disturbance or removal of surveyor's marker or monument

Current as of: 2009
Check for updates

(a) Any person who knowingly injures, destroys, disturbs or removes any marker properly placed on any tract of land or street or highway line by a surveyor, or by any person at the direction of a surveyor, for the purpose of designating any point, course or line in the boundary of such tract of land, street or highway, shall be fined not less than five hundred dollars or more than one thousand dollars.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, a surveyor licensed under chapter 391, or a person acting at the direction of any such licensed surveyor, may remove an existing marker in order to place an upgraded marker in the same location.

(c) Any person who knowingly injures, destroys, disturbs or removes any monument that has been established by the National Geodetic Survey or Connecticut Geodetic Survey for use in the determination of spatial location relative to the Connecticut coordinate systems specified in section 13a-255 or precise elevation datum shall be fined not less than two thousand dollars or more than five thousand dollars.

 

[stuckmotor]

Line pins seem to get gone as fast as my hair. My neighbor had the line surveyed and a neighbor kid came and pulled up the pins. My mother had her property surveyed and my brother poured concrete around one of the main pins. The neighbor then burned off some undergrowth and set my mother's woods on fire. While making a fire break, a bulldozer upset the pin, concrete and all.

 

[TCBoomer]

one last note...

thanks cbw1999 and I'll reply back when I can about the wireless camera.
that is something I have given thought to and I think it might be time to do it