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  1. #81
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    Parish NY
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    555DTC Farmall 200

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    "Here's what Ithink I'd do: (1)Measure out a rope to the length of the well pipe, plus enough to hold on to. (2) Subtract ten feet, then tie on a ten foot long green pole that would sink and show a water level. (3) Run the pump till the water stopped. (4) Quickly lower the pole to the end of the pipe. (5) Pull it back out of the well. (6) If the pole was wet all the way up, I'd jump for joy and wait for the pump guy. (7) If the pole wasn't wet but a few inches, I'd lower the pipe a ways and see what happened. Note: They used to be able to pull out a steel casing and deepen a well. I'm not sure about plastic."

    Good thought but most submersibles have The cable guards in the middle of this page to keep the pipe centered. Probably will not be able to get anything down there.
    Pull the pump and have a well driller pump it out and determine the GPM the well makes. You could rent a pump and do it yourself, but $ may be the same

    Here is the check valve I was talking about.
    Torque arrestors, safety rope, and deluxe pump wire cable guards, all necessary items for installing a pump..

    Here is a flow reducer
    Dole flow control valves are metering valves to control allowing only a specified amount of water per minute through the valve.

    Seems if you were pumping dry you should have spits and sputs of air. Not just a gradual reduction of pressure till none. Bad foot valve would not run out of pressure or water just cause some air to get in the line. Once you were running you would have water until you shut it off and it water leaked back, that's why most folks but in back flow valve I posted above for just in case.

    Here is a potential scenario, although it is probably not happening and is full of what if's it in theory could happen.
    Split in the line below the water level.
    IF you have a backflow valve before the gauge house would hold pressure. If it is under the water line in the case the pressure of the water in the line may not be enough to negate the pressure of the water in the casing holding the water in the pipe. With all the water off in the house the pump may have enough juice to fill the pressure tank AND pump water out of the split in the pipe. Once the pressure tank is filled the pump will shut off, you will not lose pressure due to the backflow valve. At my place I can run the water for several minutes or flush the toilet 4 of 5 times before the pump kicks on. With the house calling for water AND the split in the pipe the pump cannot keep up and you lose pressure.


    Again this is a far fetched scenario, and probably not happening. My physics may be off too, but I had something similar happen and I would lose pressure after running water for a while. I would never lose water all the way just pressure down to a small 5 to 10 PSI. It was a split pipe below the water level.
    I would have the well tested for GPM and go from there. You may just have a defective pump that heats up and loses power. You say the pressure "shoots up"
    When you have water how long does it take to build up and shut off. At my house it takes 20 seconds or so to go from 30 to 50

  2. #82
    Super Member scott_vt's Avatar
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    Oct 2004
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    east wells,vt
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    1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    BUT there is no current info that confirms that hes reaching a dry pump condition. I think there is reason to consider the recent idea introduced that the pump is having trouble starting & running under hi pressure load. Consider that the pump must start and run at ~115PSI water column plus the water pressure in the tank. Is this a deep well pump made for this?
    larry
    Good Evenin Larry,
    Your an engineer so your probablly better able to answer my next question!

    Is a 1 hp pump got enough grunt at a 300 ft depth ? Im thinking maybe 1 1/2 hp pump may be needed for prolonged pumping at that depth. This is just a quess on my part, not based on any formula, maybe you would know more about this.....

    Edit, I guess I missinterpeted the OP, I thought he ment that the static level was 60 ft below grade, not 60 ft total depth, sorry my mistake.....
    scotty

    ,,,course,,it is gas,and gas is,,well,gas,,so,,but it kills the @#$$ oughta them yellow jackets,,,thingy

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/content/...onth-scott_vt/

  3. #83
    Platinum Member
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    555DTC Farmall 200

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    It is not just HP it is GPM. There is alot that goes into it. I am not good at math, but here is a good page with info on selecting a proper pump.
    Properly sizing well pumps for longevity & efficiency

  4. #84
    Gold Member
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    Nov 2006
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    Clover SC
    Tractor
    Kubota L2800 4WD FEL

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    I have good water pressure again. At least we have water for cooking, toilets and sink. It will handle about 1 shower per hour as long as nothing else gets turned on. Well guy is coming tomorrow. He said he would not extend a 320'+ well because he did not want to destroy a bit not knowing what was down there. He was saying that a 1hp was a lot for a residential house and that the pump may be too much. When the well was drilled 8 years ago I think it origionally had a 3/4 HP pump. When that went out I went back with a 1HP as the guy at the store plumbing store said it would help with water pressure. That 1HP has been in the ground for about a year and doing fine up until now.

    Obviously I am lerning the hard way on this one so who knows if the guy at the plumbing store was full of crap or not. Now I think all I can do is "hope" that the well guy is straight with me in what my options are instead of just to drill a new one. We started to pull the pump today and add the 10' but that would be another guess. If it didn't work we would be into week 2 and I have to go back to work on Tuesday. I really don't see much in the way of options right now. All I can do is hope the well guyis good, knows what he is doing and not just out for a buck. I guess I can look at it this way, I have already replaced the pump, tank and pressure switch so as long as the pump is ok for size I won't have to buy any of those things again..... Just looking for that silver lining!!! :-)

  5. #85
    Super Member scott_vt's Avatar
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    1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint S View Post
    It is not just HP it is GPM. There is alot that goes into it. I am not good at math, but here is a good page with info on selecting a proper pump.
    Properly sizing well pumps for longevity & efficiency
    Good Evenin Clint,
    Thanks for that info... interesting.

    Blackrat good luck with the well guy, we are crossing our fingers for you !!!
    scotty

    ,,,course,,it is gas,and gas is,,well,gas,,so,,but it kills the @#$$ oughta them yellow jackets,,,thingy

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/content/...onth-scott_vt/

  6. #86
    Silver Member
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    Mar 2010
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    196

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    theres nothing really bad about a low volume well. You just need storage and a controller to protect the pump.

    Coyote Pump Protectors protect pumps and motors. Coyote Manufacturing, Inc.

    I said earlier that you will want a cistern but you might be able to get there with a few pressure tanks. The pump can cycle on and off all night as long as you get enough to have a decent water supply. Even 1GPM is like 1600 gallons per day. I have a house with a well that makes less than a cup per hour. It's a dug well so the storage is the well itself.

    You need a controller though, to keep from running that pump dry.

  7. #87
    Super Member
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    Feb 2006
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    VA
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    Very strange that you never see milky looking water that clears as the bubbles float out.

    Get your well pumped/cleaned out to the original bottom and put your pump down about 3' off bottom. The added reserve plus the higher replenishing flow rate into a nearly empty well should do it for you. Also put back in one of those safety pressure switches that cut off if theres no flow from the running pump. That way itll save the pump and youll be alerted when its being overused.
    larry
    Quote Originally Posted by scott_vt View Post
    Good Evenin Clint,
    Thanks for that info... interesting.
    Clints right, but we now know its not a pumping problem

    Blackrat good luck with the well guy, we are crossing our fingers for you !!!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackrat View Post
    I have good water pressure again. At least we have water for cooking, toilets and sink. It will handle about 1 shower per hour as long as nothing else gets turned on. Well guy is coming tomorrow. He said he would not extend a 320'+ well because he did not want to destroy a bit not knowing what was down there. He was saying that a 1hp was a lot for a residential house and that the pump may be too much. When the well was drilled 8 years ago I think it origionally had a 3/4 HP pump. When that went out I went back with a 1HP as the guy at the store plumbing store said it would help with water pressure. That 1HP has been in the ground for about a year and doing fine up until now.

    Obviously I am lerning the hard way on this one so who knows if the guy at the plumbing store was full of crap or not. Now I think all I can do is "hope" that the well guy is straight with me in what my options are instead of just to drill a new one. We started to pull the pump today and add the 10' but that would be another guess. If it didn't work we would be into week 2 and I have to go back to work on Tuesday. I really don't see much in the way of options right now. All I can do is hope the well guyis good, knows what he is doing and not just out for a buck. I guess I can look at it this way, I have already replaced the pump, tank and pressure switch so as long as the pump is ok for size I won't have to buy any of those things again..... Just looking for that silver lining!!! :-)
    Pls see my post above. Its the least expensive way to surely help the situation. A restrictor will offer no help you couldnt accomplish by just running your faucets slower.
    ,,, Im guessing you have a 3gpm well. You will only get that delivery from a pump position at the bottom. 25 feet up from there and you can probably only draw 1GPM continuously. And 60' up you can get essentially zero. Your pump is probably 10 GPM. From the bottom it will pump your 60' full wellcase dry in around 10 minutes [however its pumping rate does decrease as the water drops because it is pumping a higher net water column/more pressure]. But 10gpm is huge. You never really need to use water that fast for long do you? A toilet running will run my well "dry" but we have no trouble watering 20 horses and two families. We do see milky water occasionaly tho.
    larry
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
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    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  8. #88
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    SE Wa

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Quote Originally Posted by scott_vt View Post
    Good Afternoon Harry,
    Going back to the beginning of the thread the OP stated that hi static level was 60ft. He mentioned a well depth of 322 ft. So thats 260 ft of water minus the pump depth at 20 ft off the bottom, giving hom 480 to 500 gals of reserve... 1 1/2 gals per t Thats quite a bit of water for just domestic use.


    Ive read through the thread, and didnt see any mention of GPM return rate, but Im finding it hard to believe that he is actually running out of water. On a guess, and only a guess it almost sounds as if there is an issue with the pump.

    Just a comment, by lowering the pump 10 ft, your only going to get about another 15 gals of reserve, and usually pump guys are not big on splicing in another section of pipe...
    Yes, that is a lot of water but he is asking how much he gains by lowering it 10 ft...as you properly replied at the bottom.

    Harry K

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Have you checked with neighbors to see how well their wells are holding up? It mayi help with your decisions.

    The suggestion of a storage tank is a good one for wells with slow recovery. Pump works (on and off) 24hr/day until it is full. Does not run through the pressure tank so it eases the pump load somewhat. Common is to then add a booster pump to to feed the pressure tank. Much better solution than rationing water use and probably considerably cheaper than drilling a new well especially at those depths.

    Harry K

  10. #90
    Gold Member
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    Clover SC
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    Kubota L2800 4WD FEL

    Default Re: Well again! What else can it be? FRUSTRATED!

    Good morning all.

    Sorry if I did not see everyones suggestions over the weekend or did not quite understand them. You would think an engineer could figure this out but computer engineering did not prepare me for this... I have checked with my neighbors and they have no problems. I am in the middle of 13 acres and my heighbors are situated on the same or more. There is no area for new construction to go so nothing has been added that I know of. It does appear that their wells are about 1/2 the depth of mine and they have good water pressure.

    The confusing thing about my current problem is that we have been fine for the 8 years that we have been here. Our house is 3500sqft. We have routinely washed clothes, taken showers and baths, run the diswasher all while I'm outside hosing the garage down. Water and water pressure had never been a problem and we have never run out. This was all with the 1hp Myers pump and 20gallon tank. I think I mentioned earlier that I did find a leak going to the barn that was on the back side where I never go. The leak had the ground mushy but we never lost any pressure at the barn or in the house. I really hope I get better news from the well guy other than just drill another one.

    I would assume and you guys correct me if I am wrong, the current well "will" eventually recover if left alone. So if I have to drill another well then I would have 2 working ones and hopefully both will eventually have plenty of water and pressure.

    Wade

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