daugen
Super Star Member
Compensation for health system executives
unreal. Doesn't seem to be much cutting back in admin salaries...
MacLawn, thank you. Drew
Retirement savings ....Yikes !
- Thread starter brin
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Compensation for health system executives
unreal. Doesn't seem to be much cutting back in admin salaries...
MacLawn, thank you. Drew
Gale Hawkins
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We just ran into that locally. The hospital has sent many employees home and gave the rest a 5% pay cut and the CEO just got a chunk of Incentive Pay that was in his contract based on performance scores. These are some issues that could be addressed but that does not seem to be the objective of Affordable Care Act.
dave1949
Super Star Member
The issue of financial advisers is going to be different for different people. As MacLawn points out, there are valid reasons to avail oneself of financial advise. Maybe the most important thing to recognize is, are you one of those people? If you don't know what you are doing, and are just blundering around, how much are you leaving on the table compared to well-directed investments that fit your personal situation?
There is a middle ground. A regular account at Ed Jones for example where you deal with a broker-dealer, has several advantages. You get access to some products that would be difficult to to get as an individual small investor. Ed Jones takes some pride in their name and they don't want to sell you junk--for the most part. So, you still have evaluate things for yourself. You will be talking to the same person for an extended time, it is an arms-length relationship I would say, but at least you know each other.
Something like Ed Jones will cost more in fees than a good no-load mutual fund, but there are offsetting considerations. Certainly Ed would like to sell you an annuity or other insurance products. And, who knows, some of that may belong in various people's portfolios. In their last disclosure statement, about 20% percent of Ed's net income is in the form of market fees, money paid to Ed Jones for bringing in customers. It is a buyer beware situation, but what isn't?
I would say never put all your eggs in one or three baskets no matter where or with whom you invest. If you do some direct investments in mutual no-loads, some through a broker-dealer, and some through an adviser if you wish, you can analyze the results and see which is working better for you.
There is a middle ground. A regular account at Ed Jones for example where you deal with a broker-dealer, has several advantages. You get access to some products that would be difficult to to get as an individual small investor. Ed Jones takes some pride in their name and they don't want to sell you junk--for the most part. So, you still have evaluate things for yourself. You will be talking to the same person for an extended time, it is an arms-length relationship I would say, but at least you know each other.
Something like Ed Jones will cost more in fees than a good no-load mutual fund, but there are offsetting considerations. Certainly Ed would like to sell you an annuity or other insurance products. And, who knows, some of that may belong in various people's portfolios. In their last disclosure statement, about 20% percent of Ed's net income is in the form of market fees, money paid to Ed Jones for bringing in customers. It is a buyer beware situation, but what isn't?
I would say never put all your eggs in one or three baskets no matter where or with whom you invest. If you do some direct investments in mutual no-loads, some through a broker-dealer, and some through an adviser if you wish, you can analyze the results and see which is working better for you.
Travelover
Elite Member
Agreed. But you can pay a financial adviser by the hour to set you up with a basic plan that includes an asset allocation consisting of just a few basic stock and bond index funds that you can manage yourself pretty much forever. The gouging comes in when they want to charge you an ongoing fee based on assets or are constantly churning your account in and out of hot new opportunities. I am not a fan of Edward Jones, as I don't feel that their fees justify their value added.
The average person would do a lot better to just go to Vanguard or Fidelity and buy a Target Retirement fund for the year that they plan to retire. It is managed, and the allocation is adjusted year over year including into retirement. And the fees are a fraction of 1%.
ultrarunner
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The former CEO total compensation package was 250k... actually low for the SF Bay Area and about 3 times what the full time RN earns at the facility.
She also had ownership shares going back to the early 90's when she led the construction of the present facility... the shares had been doing well for many years until 2010.
She retired in early 2012 concurrent with the 25% staff reduction and 10% across the board cut in hours work/paid from 40 hours to 36 a week.
The contrast is the local "Not for Profits" that are taxpayer supported pay on average 750k to over a million plus most have incentives...
It is the not for profits that pay the big money and they don't pay taxes on earnings or Property Tax...
We are physcian owned meaning we pay taxes on income, distributions are again subject to tax and we pay a lot in Property Tax and Taxes on Medical Equipment...
Profit is a bad work in Health Care and this is why almost all the big players have gone Non Profit or Not for Profit business models...
She also had ownership shares going back to the early 90's when she led the construction of the present facility... the shares had been doing well for many years until 2010.
She retired in early 2012 concurrent with the 25% staff reduction and 10% across the board cut in hours work/paid from 40 hours to 36 a week.
The contrast is the local "Not for Profits" that are taxpayer supported pay on average 750k to over a million plus most have incentives...
It is the not for profits that pay the big money and they don't pay taxes on earnings or Property Tax...
We are physcian owned meaning we pay taxes on income, distributions are again subject to tax and we pay a lot in Property Tax and Taxes on Medical Equipment...
Profit is a bad work in Health Care and this is why almost all the big players have gone Non Profit or Not for Profit business models...
ultrarunner
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Update... received a call today which confirmed a mistake had been made and the money is to be returned to my account...
Geez, if a person isn't always on top of things you just loose out... and this was a plan from 1998!
Geez, if a person isn't always on top of things you just loose out... and this was a plan from 1998!
dave1949
Super Star Member
A long while back, I thought I read that target retirement funds passed through the fees on the underlying group of funds they hold, plus charged a fee for the target fund itself. I haven't looked in along time, so this may be bad info, or it may not apply to some fund companies.
I'm not trying to sell anyone an Ed Jones account.
Just pointing out some of the possibilities and their pros and cons as I see them. Ed's fee structure varies depending on what Ed is doing for you. Sometimes they are not all that transparent, but in other cases they are.Younger people who have most of their retirement saving still ahead of them should at least know what's out there for fund styles/types. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
300UGUY
Super Member
A long while back, I thought I read that target retirement funds passed through the fees on the underlying group of funds they hold, plus charged a fee for the target fund itself. I haven't looked in along time, so this may be bad info, or it may not apply to some fund companies.
I'm not trying to sell anyone an Ed Jones account.
Younger people who have most of their retirement saving still ahead of them should at least know what's out there for fund styles/types. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
My wife had a Edward Jones account. When the market went south in 2000, he stopped answering calls, later we found the office closed. I guess he couldn't make money at it, and left. The firm moved somebody in, but it took a couple of weeks. I set her up with a fidelity account after that, never looked back.
keegs
Veteran Member
I've had some experiences with family members who's risk tollerance was such that they got out and stayed out when the market was down. It's apparently a common reaction and can destroy a lifetime of saving. Personal finance isn't always a comfortable topic of discussion to be having with family members if it's ever even brought up at all.
I guess to the extent an inexperienced investor trusts their guidance, they cold benefit from having a financial advisor under such circumstances, assuming of course the advisor is competent and has their client's interests in mind.
I guess to the extent an inexperienced investor trusts their guidance, they cold benefit from having a financial advisor under such circumstances, assuming of course the advisor is competent and has their client's interests in mind.
daugen
Super Star Member
The average person would do a lot better to just go to Vanguard or Fidelity and buy a Target Retirement fund for the year that they plan to retire
not historically actually, most target retirement funds were underperformers, even though they had too much equity in them. When the market crashed five years ago,
many target plans significantly reallocated their plans to make them more conservative, as too many lost huge amounts of money in the market drop.
Yes, they work, but I think you can do better yourself with conservative and moderate allocation funds from Vanguard or Fidelity.
Your point is good though, target retirement funds are the true cruise control of investing.
As someone who has sat down at the kitchen table with an awful lot of middle income families, in a pretty highly educated area, I can tell you
that the "average" investor is almost dangerously incompetent. This may seem easy to "us" but investing is voodoo and witchcraft to many, many
people and the stock market scares, and tempts, most of them. The husbands tended to be more aggressive investors, and the wives more conservative, but
few had any plan for what they were doing. Buying individual stocks is nuts for the uninformed investor. And not one person I saw had any idea how to buy an
individual bond, which I think is good, stay away from them if you don't know what you are doing... bonds are no longer "safe" any more, though everything is relative.
In a low yield environment, people are doing strange things to ice their cake, and most are just throwing darts against the wall.
My forte was portfolio analysis. I loved doing it, intellectually challenging and the look of relief on parents faces when they finally understood where there money
was invested was gratifying. I didn't manage money for anyone, except for a few ancient Quaker ladies who would not let me out of their kitchens without their statements, because
they didn't trust anyone, well except me. I never liked managing money, I worried more about folk's money than they did, literally, and it was not a comfortable position for me. And when I did manage half a dozen accounts, I charged half of one percent. That annoyed most of the other brokers in the reporting agency, because it made them look, well, expensive... I wasn't in it for the money, and that made me a bit of an oddball. I was happy to charge folk one to two thousand dollars to spend about fifty hours on their planning. Fifty real hours....not attorney hours.
I had a close friend come to me with his family trust of just over seven figures. We designed a socially responsible investing plan that met his needs and goals perfectly.
And when the crash came, his one million dollar account was now 700K. How do you look at a friend and know you were partially responsible for his "losing" all that money.
Now we figured he had ten percent more than if he hadn't made the change, which was little consolation. He is still one of my closest friends.
I sat down with another local broker and discussed his business, he managed a lot of money. I asked him about fees, and he was at two percent. I asked him if he had any
client pushback for that, and he said not at all. Some sheep going to slaughter there, even if was all professional and above board.
I'm very happy with my savings in Vanguard. Their main office is an hour away, which I like. And I grew up with Jack Bogle coming to our farm often, walking down the lane, looking like he was eight feet tall. A real Ichabod Crane. He and my Dad were good friends, my father was President of the Investment Company Institute, basically the trade association for all mutual funds. So I have a comfort level with no load mutual funds run by what sure seems like honest people. You have to find your comfort level somewhere...
not historically actually, most target retirement funds were underperformers, even though they had too much equity in them. When the market crashed five years ago,
many target plans significantly reallocated their plans to make them more conservative, as too many lost huge amounts of money in the market drop.
Yes, they work, but I think you can do better yourself with conservative and moderate allocation funds from Vanguard or Fidelity.
Your point is good though, target retirement funds are the true cruise control of investing.
As someone who has sat down at the kitchen table with an awful lot of middle income families, in a pretty highly educated area, I can tell you
that the "average" investor is almost dangerously incompetent. This may seem easy to "us" but investing is voodoo and witchcraft to many, many
people and the stock market scares, and tempts, most of them. The husbands tended to be more aggressive investors, and the wives more conservative, but
few had any plan for what they were doing. Buying individual stocks is nuts for the uninformed investor. And not one person I saw had any idea how to buy an
individual bond, which I think is good, stay away from them if you don't know what you are doing... bonds are no longer "safe" any more, though everything is relative.
In a low yield environment, people are doing strange things to ice their cake, and most are just throwing darts against the wall.
My forte was portfolio analysis. I loved doing it, intellectually challenging and the look of relief on parents faces when they finally understood where there money
was invested was gratifying. I didn't manage money for anyone, except for a few ancient Quaker ladies who would not let me out of their kitchens without their statements, because
they didn't trust anyone, well except me. I never liked managing money, I worried more about folk's money than they did, literally, and it was not a comfortable position for me. And when I did manage half a dozen accounts, I charged half of one percent. That annoyed most of the other brokers in the reporting agency, because it made them look, well, expensive... I wasn't in it for the money, and that made me a bit of an oddball. I was happy to charge folk one to two thousand dollars to spend about fifty hours on their planning. Fifty real hours....not attorney hours.
I had a close friend come to me with his family trust of just over seven figures. We designed a socially responsible investing plan that met his needs and goals perfectly.
And when the crash came, his one million dollar account was now 700K. How do you look at a friend and know you were partially responsible for his "losing" all that money.
Now we figured he had ten percent more than if he hadn't made the change, which was little consolation. He is still one of my closest friends.
I sat down with another local broker and discussed his business, he managed a lot of money. I asked him about fees, and he was at two percent. I asked him if he had any
client pushback for that, and he said not at all. Some sheep going to slaughter there, even if was all professional and above board.
I'm very happy with my savings in Vanguard. Their main office is an hour away, which I like. And I grew up with Jack Bogle coming to our farm often, walking down the lane, looking like he was eight feet tall. A real Ichabod Crane. He and my Dad were good friends, my father was President of the Investment Company Institute, basically the trade association for all mutual funds. So I have a comfort level with no load mutual funds run by what sure seems like honest people. You have to find your comfort level somewhere...