Outrageous propane prices

[GrantMO]

Well, I could have done this one better. Last summer I locked in at 92cents a gallon the same amount of propane I used last winter. Guess what? After filling the tank 10 days ago I have about 100 gallons left at that price. Then I get to pay market price which was 1.45 a gallon 10 days ago. My driver, actually a decent guy, informed me that the price seems to go up almost every day. That's almost 600 dollars for 80% of the tank. Is this going to level off? I'm beginning to wonder if I should put in a woodburning stove in the basement. Wood is still a cheap fuel around here. Man, next year I'm going to lock in 1500 or 2000 gallons just to be sure.

Grant

 

[Thomas]

Grant,
Know what you mean,for just got a notice that the electric rates are going up for fuel adjustment....fuel adjustment just what in the heck does that mean...to me they want there share of the pie also.
Just this week on the west coast the goverment said BP gas company was fixing there prices and proved it,but do to the gray areas no charges.

Its just a matter of time they {insurance&goverment etc..}come after the people that burn wood.

I guess we all pay one way or another.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[s1120]

Grant:

Be glad you do not use natural gas! Last year 1 therm of gas in NY cost us $2.73. This year the cost is $4.97 and supposed to continue rising!!!!!!! My Niagara Mohawk bills are going to put us in the poor house this winter!

Michele

 

[Blu21]

At least wood is a renewable resource!

 

[MReeter]

Grant,We also live in Mo.Two years ago we contracted propane for 54.9.Due to the very mild past two winters,we're still burning that 55 cent gas.But,as you say,that will be gone one day.We have air/air heat pumps that do a very good job untill the temps get down to freezing,then the gas kicks in.If your thinking wood-burner,look at outside units,keeps all the mess outdoors.To me there is nothing worse than dragging wood into the house,even if the stove is in the basement,and dragging ashes out.I did this for several years and would never go back to burning wood in the house again.

 

[Bird]

This past week, my brother-in-law had his propane tank filled; 100 gallons at $1.50 a gallon, and I took one of my little 10 gallon bottles in to be filled at $1.80 a gallon. My house is total electric, and I just paid the bill (which was for power used in November) and it was the highest bill I've ever had ($247) for a single month - our higher bills are usually for cooling in the summer. And since December was the coldest month on record, I hope the next bill is not much more than $300./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[bpence]

We use fuel oil for the furnace and are experiencing the same HUGE price jumps this year that the propane and natural gas users are experiencing. Last year fuel oil was down in the 85 cent per gallon range. Just had 300 gallons delivered before New Years at $1.42 per gallon. That's a 67% price increase. We have a wood boiler attached to the main boiler that I fed for many years to heat the house. That was a full-time part-time job to keep up on cutting, splitting, and hauling that I just don't want to go back to. I guess all we can do is suck it up and pay the piper.

Bob Pence

 

[cowboydoc]

Yes it's a real shame that we are in this predicament and there is absolutely no reason for it. Whatever happened to the lower fuel and energy prices we were going to get with deregulation? Well take a look around you've got three companies nationwide controlling the energy. Doesn't take much to get three people to go along even if it is illegal.

Everyday two more big corporations go together. We need another rockefeller shakeup. Big business does not create lower prices, period. Same thing is going to happen in the airline industry before long.

Was down at the co-op last weekend and now they're talking about fertilizer shortages. Good night I mean a fertizlizer shortage??? Come on there's no more a shortage of fertilizer than there is a shortage of natural gas or propane. But now they're talking about double and triple prices for fertilizer this year. Great and corn's still less than $2 a bushel. Well hey though we've only got two companies bidding for the corn. When's the last time you saw a reduction at the grocery store? It's ridiculous. Sorry just my rantings about things but I'm afraid unless something is done with corporate america things are going to keep getting worse.

Last one and I promise this will be it. In healthcare the insurance companies artificially drive up the cost of healthcare. Let me tell you how. Almost all insurance now is managed care one way or another. If I want to be a provider for insurance company X I have to agree to their fee schedule. What they do to determine this fee schedule is go in and take 10-50% off of the usual and customary charge for the area. Even though say my charge for an exam is $45. When the insurance company takes their % off the top I may get $25 or $30. Now go to the next year. The government, based on insurance company statistics, sends out the prices that would be UCR for the area. They are always higher than the last year. Well the hospitals and doctors know that managed care is going to come in and slash their fees so they raise their prices to these new levels and then managed care comes in again with the new contracts and slashes your fees again. But here's the kicker. When the insurance bases your rates for insurance they use the higher rate!!!! They don't use the discounted rate. They they go to the companies and say well look the cost of healthcare has risen again and we need to raise your fees but they don't raise my "true fees" one bit, but they artifically created a price increase because the doctors and hospitals are just trying to make what they made the last year! Usually we don't because they'll say well if you want to stay we don't have the money to raise the fee schedule. So even though you raised prices the insurance company won't pay you anymore even though they raised the rates for the company. Then to make it even worse they create a mountain of paperwork and if every i and t isn't dotted and crossed they deny payment. But if insurance is denied the patient has to pay the higher rate. I can't by law charge the patient the rate that the insurance company paid. Pretty sad isn't it.

Richard

 

[Boots]

Thomas,

Fuel adjustment means that the Electric company's are paying the same high prices for Natural Gas and Oil that we are. In order to keep from going out of business, this cost has to be passed along.

The reason Natural Gas prices are so high is because the EPA makes it almost impossible for utilities to build Coal Burning plants (which is a much cheaper fuel that we have plenty of here in America). Utilites are forced to build the gas fired plants. What happens when 100's of plants are put into operation, each one being supplied with a 16" gas main. Well, you know, supply and demand has it's effect on price.

Combined this scenario with deregulation. For many years, the utilities have been guaranteed a fairly low profit margin on electricity sales. All of a sudden, with deregulation, those guaranteed profits are taken away, and the utilities are afraid to spend 100's of Millions of $ on new plant's because they're afraid they can't make the mortgage payments on these plants if someone else is a little more efficient with their operation. As a result, they build the bare minimum of new plants to meet their requirements, and have little excess generating capacity to handle severe weather swings such as last summer, and this winter.

Now Comes the Venture Capitalists, who build Power Plants hoping to make tons of money in the new 'deregulated' market. They refuse to sell electricity for a 'low' profit margin, and will simply wait on the price to rise, and it will. To avoid blackouts during these times of severe weather, the Utilities are forced to pay the high price from the venture capitalists.

It will get worse before it get's better!/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Ya'll take care!
Boots

 

[RobS]

I was in a financial seminar yesterday and someone brought up "the rule of three". Apparently, as a market becomes mature the key players dwindle down to three. Not a monopoly but it's relatively easy for three key players to control pricing/purchasing etc. Look at the auto industry (in the US). The big three control most of the market. They use very aggressive purchasing tactics on the suppliers and the suppliers are faced with either loss of big volume to turn down business or potential loss of profits when winning low margin awards. All this while the OEMs are making huge profits on the vehicles. Same is starting to happen in airlines and retail (WalMart/K-Mart/etc.).

Sorry no answers, just more fuel for the fire.

Rob