Water Pressure

   / Water Pressure #1  

MarkV

Super Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2000
Messages
5,670
Location
Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
Tractor
1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39
Hi all, sure could use your advice. Living with a water well is new to me and I am unhappy with the pressure we get at the tap. Our well is about 550' deep and 150' from the house. The well company installed a 1.5 hp pump in the well and a small pressure tank is in the cawl space of the house.

What is unclear to me is the relationship between the pump and the pressure tank and how they affect the pressure at the tap. I don't know how to tell if the pump is undersized or the pressure tank is undersized or the settings are not right. It was suggested to me that I could run more than one pressure tank in series to help provide more pressure.

I know many of you have lived on a well most of your life. Sure could use your advice.

MarkV
 
   / Water Pressure #2  
Hi MarkV

I’ve been on a well now for roughly 3 years. My basic understanding is that the pump in the ground provides the water for your pressure tank, which is what provides the pressure for your house. I presume you have a pressure regulator on/near your tank that you could adjust up or down. You would want to be somewhat careful on cranking it up as you could start to shorten the life of your fixture seals. (Also be careful, as I believe this is a live electrical connection) /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

If I’m in shower, sometimes the water will noticeably rise in it’s pressure coming out. I think that is the time when the pump kicks on as my holding tank is then almost empty, or to be more accurate, it’s pressure switch has hit the lower threshold and turned the pump on.

I have also installed a whole house filter. I have a 100 gal/minute well. We seem to get a lot of sediment. I will sometimes notice a pressure drop off in the system and it doesn’t seem to recover. I know at that time, I need to change the filter. When I do, the water just comes gushing back out. My better half wants the filter changed almost weekly, as it turns brown. I change it probably once every 8 to 12 weeks as I notice a change in pressure.

Though I’m not an expert at all, I don’t think adding more holding tanks will add to your pressure at all, I’m under impression that is what your regulator will do for you. More tanks might add to your capacity before your pump has to turn on. I’m sure others will shed some light here.

Richard
 
   / Water Pressure #3  
What is the pressure in your system? Is it this pressure that bothers you, or the pressure variations that you experience as the pressure and pump cycle? What was the pressure in your old house? My pump controller allows me to set both the minimum (i.e. pump turn-on) and maximum (pump shutoff) pressure.

An additional, or larger, pressure tank will reduce the number of pump cycles, but the pump would have to run longer during each cycle. Conversely, you could raise the pump turn-on pressure a bit without changing the shutoff pressure and this would reduce the pressure variations but make them more frequent.

Have you considered building a water tower in your yard /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif? I'll bet a few thousand gallons providing gravity pressure would make you happy. Now you just have to find a solution that isn't insane.
 
   / Water Pressure #4  
That's a deep well.

The relationship is this: Once the water pressure in your house gets low enough (sensed by a pressure activated relay usually located at the base your pressure tank) the relay closes, and turns on the pump - at this point your pressure tank has very little water in it. the pump will run, filling the tank, compressing the air, until the water pressure in your house is high enough to trip the high level cutout on your pressure switch. The switch gets tripped, the pump goes off, and your pressure tank has the same ammount of air in it (just more compressed), and should be about 3/4 full of water.

Adding more pressure tanks in series wont help pressure.

Turning up your upper and lower limits on your pressure switch. But be careful, your pump is only capable of pumping against a fixed amount of pressure. you can turn them up slowly, and make sure your pump still turns off.

How much pressure is in your pressure tank when the pump turns on, and off?

How big is your pressure tank?

How high above your pressure tank are your highest water fixtures?

The size of your plumbing, along with the number of bathrooms/kitchens/utility rooms/etc can also affect your water flow at any given point.

If your pump is already maxed out, one solution would be to add a booster (jet / shallow well) pump with it's own pressure tank.

Here's an easy solution: call a well drilling company, describe your system, and ask what they could do to improve overall pressure.
 
   / Water Pressure #5  
Mark:

I've been living on a well for about 3 years now and here's what I understand.

The size of your pump determines two things: 1) The maximum pressure your system can achieve and 2) The maximum flow rate your system can achieve. A 1.5HP pump is probably about the minimum you would want - check the specifications for the pump.

The pressure tank has one main function - to keep your pump from turning on every time you turn on a faucet. This is highly desirable since the life of your pump is measured in on-off cycles not in hours of run-time. The size of the pressure tank determines how much water you can draw from a faucet before the pump will kick on. There are two settings on your pressure tank - the pump kick-on pressure and the kick-off pressure. When enough water is drawn out of the tank that the pressure in the tank drops to the kick-on level, the pump turns on and pumps water into the tank until the pressure in the tank reaches the kick off pressure.

The range between kick-on and kick-off is usually 20 - 30 PSI and it is usually set something like 35PSI on and 60PSI off. So, when you stand in your shower, you will find that the pressure gradually drops - then builds up - then drops, etc. This is the pressure drawing down, the pump kicking on, building up the pressure, kicking off, etc. The objective is to make this cycle last around two minutes at least (with the shower running) - so as to reduce the number of pump cycles and extend its life.

You can adjust the pressure controller on your pressure tank. There is a high-limit (kick-off) setting and a low-limit (kick-on) setting. The adjustment is very sensitive. Once you set it, you must adjust the air pressure in the tank to be 2PSI more than the low-limit.

If you set the high-limit above the maximum pressure that your well pump can generate when a faucet is on, your pump will kick on but not kick off until you turn off the faucet. I have been told this and it makes sense, but I have not done it. This would be very useful if you water your grass or garden for long periods - you could get max pressure at your hose and not use up any of the pump-cycle life.

I suppose a second pressure tank might help but it would be difficult to figure out the plumbing/pressure settings. A BIGGER pressure tank would certainly help by storing more water and lengthening the cycle time.

Regarding your whole house filter: This will limit the maximum flow (and percieved pressure) from your faucets. Read this information from the filter cartridge label. If it is just a rust/sediment filter it's probably around 5GPM. A carbon charcoal filter will be much less. Also, the flow rate will decrease as the filter clogs up.

I installed two whole house filters in parallel. This increased both the initial flow rate and the length of time before I had to change the filters.

I suspect that your dissatisfaction with the pressure at your tap has more to do with your filter than with the pump or pressure tank.

Go to http://www.plbg.com. It is a discussion forum for plumbing. I'm sure you'll find a thread on this issue or someone to answer your specific questions.

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   / Water Pressure
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Richard, Dave, Anderson, Bill, Thanks for information and a place to start looking. I am not sure what the pressure is at the tank or the air pressure in the tank now. The well I am talking about is at our weekend house and I will not be able to get up there until next week. I also bought a pressure gage that hooks to a hose bib and will see what the pressure is coming out of the pipes. It would be nice if it was as simple as ajusting the pressure switch, but it is rare for things to be that easy, for me./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

What size pumps do you guys have in your wells? Does anyone have any basic rules on sizing well pumps?

Thanks,
MarkV
 
   / Water Pressure #7  
Bill -

My mom's place (the tractor property) has been on a well for many years, but since my dad's passing some 12 years ago, I have become the "responsible" party for maintaining the system. The problem is that I haven't been able to turn up any documentation, drawings or any kind of explanation for how it all works. My dad is gone and so is the company that installed it.

Your discussion here has already answered some questions that I've had, but there's still much that I don't understand. In addition to the pressure tank, there is a second tank next to it (filter?), plus pressure switches, valves and what-not. The plumbing itself is a little baffling, including a couple of pipes that just poke through the wall of the shed where it's housed and then go nowhere. Drains? Over-pressure relief?

There is also a chance that there are tie-ins with an irrigation system Pop had running all over the property, and maybe something left over from a former spring-fed system. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

I wish now that I had pictures to show you, but that will have to wait until I head up there again.

Having said all that, I was wondering if you could offer suggestions for basic maintenance. It's been over 12 years since it's been touched, except for me repairing the occassional broken or leaking pipe. Surely[/b] I should be draining/flushing sediment out of the pressure tank and/or filter, but I'm not familiar with the procedure. I also have no idea if the system is performing as it should. We always get water at the taps -- sinks, showers, washing machine, and even enough to pressure-wash my orange baby /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif, but I don't know what the readings should be at the pressure tank.

Not sure how long my "if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it" philosophy is going to hold out. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

HarvSig.gif
 
   / Water Pressure #8  
Harv:

It's really hard to guess what you might have there - and I'm far from an expert but that won't stop me....

I doubt if the second tank you see is a filter. I can't imagine any filter lasting for twelve years. Like you, I suspect it might have something to do with the spring-fed system but hard to tell.

Are the "couple of pipes that just poke through the wall of the shed" about waist or chest-high and 8" or so apart? If so, they could have been the inlet/outlet for a water softener (or filter, or ?).

I have not seen anywhere that recommends regular flushing of the pressure tank or any other maintenance as long as it works.

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   / Water Pressure #10  
Mark.
Reading some of the response to your post reminded me of several items that need to be done. Change filters. Check pressure on the tank. Pump has been cycling to often. Fill the softener with salt. I better get these done before I forget./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif


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