Non Profit Potable and Irrigation Water Associations Low / Cheap standards?

[bjr]

We have 70 lots with four pump house well locations located thru out the home developement and most are 1 acre lots. The board positions are all unpaid and maintenance has always been the boards responsibility. I'm a board member now and want to start bringing the pipelines more up to a city/municiple standards. I want to start using cast iron resilant wedge style valves ($400 for 3 inch size) in the mainline that connects to the pumps. A lot of the existing lines and valves were installed maybe 35 years ago with a backhoe and are five foot deep. The Association doesn't own and equipment backhoes or tractors, in fact all tools are owner supplied. The other board members seem to think the PVC ball valves are "Good Enough For Now". The handle keep breaking off and it's a lot of hard digging to cut out and replace all the tees and fitting that are glued close to together. Am I being over the top by wanting the "Good Valves" at $400 apiece for 3"size versus $40 for PVC ball valves? We don't get anyone at the general meetings that will be board member becuase of all the work. I'm 65 and can't be board member anymore if the maintenance don't get better. At the meeting the membership (Fixed income / retired and low income members) won't raise water rates so we can have a decent budget to maybe contract out some of the work. These Home owner associations are a mess to deal with. Anyone out there having to deal with HOA style Associations? Help / suggestions Please. bjr

 

[kthompson]

How about your do a chart or report on how much time it takes to replace the current PVC valve and how often it is happening. Show the cost difference in time and money between the current set up and the new better but much higher price valves.

Then take it at least one step further show what happens in say 5 or 10 years if they remain with current set up and what the options and cost may be then. No idea what options there are but say connect to public system at cost of ???? per house, possible fines the HOA may face for water issues, but first does your water meet the current standards for drinking water? That may force the issue even now.

You may find there is government money to upgrade the system from Federal, State or some other type of group. ASK kt

 

[bjr]

You are correct in your suggestion about Gov. money. We had to incorperate three seperate smaller associations to build a whole new potable water system (Grant Money) just to meet State Standards. That was for "clean drinking water only" and had to be drilled down to different aquafer. Big bucks was spent on that and the original potable water became the irrigation with no money or attention given to that. I went back to visit with the same people that promoted the Gov. grant and let just say it was a short visit when I mentioned the irrigation upgrades that were needed. They're money was for "clean drinking water" only. I'm just tryin' to learn the Civil side of HOA structure and am trying to work within the parlimentry rules. I've been trying to hang to the couple acres I own to leave to the Grandkids and I'd like to leave a decent water system for them, but, doesn't look to good at the present. I don't know how other rural water associations do it. bjr

 

[SimS]

Can you resign your board position and dig your own well? Just joking (sort of). HOAs can get "political" real quick in my experience. Also in my experience it is an uphill battle to convince folks to spend $400 once instead of $40 ten times when they think their labor costs are "free". Good luck.

SimS

 

[kthompson]

bjr, can you legally dig a well for you only? If so then you may be better off to spend those several thousands.

 

[bjr]

Yes & Yes. I've seriosly considering my own well. The high nitrate level is in the shallower auqufier (that's financially doable) so I'll have to consider if I want to go back to that again. Also a fellows electric bill rises substancially. Some of the folks that are not part of the association have had their wells collapse and wanted to join the association, but we are at max capacity now. After I get these pumps at this station back on line I will be voted out and replaced. That will be the end of any physical participation in the maintenance for me. I'll still pay my bill and vote at the meetings, but, that will be it. I did since I last wrote, find some less expensive, but durable valves. The local Irrigation store finally showed me some cast iron "butterfly valves" with gear heads attached that can be direct burial. They are flange mount so if they need replacement at a long later date, the flanges can be separted a small amount and the valve section removed. For the 3" size and the flange adapters and bolts they'll run a llttle over $200 apiece. That's about half of the cast iron resilant wedge valves that we had intialy looked at. I feel the gearhead butterfly valve will be a substaill improvement over standard issue PVC ball valves with plastic handles. I will use 6" sch 40 pvc pipe to go over the operating head (2"x 2") for the tool. Anyway I'm hoping to get this Ordeal put behind by this weekend. I've had about two months of living with a shovel in my hand and now it's someone else's turn. bjr

 

[kthompson]

I have some time on a HOA board for office building and it can be amazing how little some people care about the long term of any decision.

In all this assuming no outlook for a public water system in the area in foreseeable future?

My guess at to the valves too many people you are dealing with have never used pvc ball valves in the dirt in real life. I have three I think on 1/2 or 3/4inch line for some runs off of our main line and there can be a real pain. I seldom try to cut them off but they sure can be difficult. kt

 

[Gem99ultra]

Yes, I've had a LOT of experience with HOA's. And none of it good. My last residence had a "HOA" that vetoed everything I wanted to do, build, or improve. They even threatened to file a law suit on me for having two 4 x 6 storage sheds - they claimed the deed restrictions allowed for only one shed. All said and done, with a little investigation, I learned that the "HOA" wasn't even legitimate. They had not renewed their charter in over 20 years. That complaint was resolved!

In another instance with another HOA at my weekend get-away house, I was also one of those working board members, and finally gained the prestige of being elected President. Oh how wonderful that was. As Pres. you get to do all of the work, foot the expense, and celebrate once a year by throwing a big BBQ for all of the non-active residents.

Broken water lines, valves, and pumps were a common occurrence. Nobody wanted to front the cost for improvements, nor to even raise the water rates at all. No interest whatsoever - until the water shut down with a line failure. Then the only consideration was to fix it at the lowest cost, period. The amount of labor was never a consideration.

I can't suggest a good solution. What you propose is ideal if you are well heeled and want to donate the cost and labor. In my case, that wasn't going to happen ...fixed income retired and old population in the subdivision of about 120 lots near (but not on) the lake. My solution was to sell my place and leave the problem to those that remained. Sooner or later they'll come around, but by then, it may not be your problem to resolve.

 

[bjr]

I've been thinking. I'm amazed at how the large scale projects in this world ever were started and completed after dealing with HOA's. What I mean the visionary thinking just isn't happening anymore. I'm truly glad that my fore fathers had vision and the guts to put forth there ideas even though they knew some people would laugh and say "That Ain't Happening". Think about any great project - Panama Canal, any of the large Dams, The Columbia Basin Project and the Hiway System with the bridges and tunnels. My father and his father left us some good stuff and now our generation hasn't the gumption to even be able to maintain it. Okay maybe I've wondered off a bit, but it comes right back to the HOA's and our will power to do ANYTHING just isn't there. bjr

 

[Valveman]

I would like to backup one step further and ask why these valves are being used in the first place. No matter what kind of material is used, there are only two type of valves made, those that leak and those that will leak. These valves should only be used if there is a line break and it has to be shut down to work on it. If that is the case, someone should address the real problem, which is the lines breaking.

Usually the water hammer from pumps cycling on and off is breaking the lines. When you stop the pump cycling, you stop breaking lines, and these cut off valves would be used very rarely.

Most of the systems I work with last so long, that when you do have a break and need to close a valve, it has been untouched for so long that the valve will not close. Then you have to shut the pumps down and drain the system to work on it anyway. So why even have cut off valves?