got a water well problem

[valley]

Hi, We went to check out the lower ranch and found the water hadn't been on for several days.

There was power to the pressure switch and it was buzzing and burned, I put in a new pressure switch and it began to buzz. The capacitor looks good in the control box, the pump will not run or pump water.

Got any thoughts or recognize the problem?

Thanks Richard

 

[Valveman]

The capacitor may "look good", but I would not pull the pump until I tried a new control box or at least a new capacitor and start relay. You should also make sure you have 240V not just 115 volts going to the pump. But the problem is very common. The pump has been cycling on and off so much that it destroyed the pressure switch, start cap, and/or start relay. Those are just signs that you are cycling the motor to death, which has most likely already happened.

 

[valley]

Greetings Valveman, thanks for coming by. I have 240 to the pressure switch. If the capacitor was bad, would that cause the switch to just buzz and burn?
As far as cycling, I didn't check to see if the bladder was bad in the tank. Never seen this type of thing with the switch.

 

[Valveman]

Greetings Valveman, thanks for coming by. I have 240 to the pressure switch. If the capacitor was bad, would that cause the switch to just buzz and burn?
As far as cycling, I didn't check to see if the bladder was bad in the tank. Never seen this type of thing with the switch.

Yeah the switch is buzzing a burning because the pump is pulling locked rotor (high) amps. The capacitor and relay being bad makes the motor draw high amperage and trip the overload.

The bladder in the tank does not have to be bad to cause cycling to destroy the pump. Even with a good bladder in the tank, the pump can cycle on/off every minute or two, and there are 1440 minutes in a day. The bladder in the tank gets destroyed from the "normal" cycling every minute or two, which flexes the bladder until it tears. Then when the bladder is torn, the pump can cycle every couple of seconds instead of every couple of minutes, so the start relay, capacitor, pressure switch, and even the pump/motor are next on the hit list.

 

[dickfoster]

Hi, We went to check out the lower ranch and found the water hadn't been on for several days.

There was power to the pressure switch and it was buzzing and burned, I put in a new pressure switch and it began to buzz. The capacitor looks good in the control box, the pump will not run or pump water.

Got any thoughts or recognize the problem?

Thanks Richard

Well it's been dry so your well hasn't gone dry has it? Lots have around here lately.
Your protection circuit shouldn't allow the pump run if it's dry so something is up with that. Maybe you'll have to pull the pump anyway. Hope it's not a deep one and it's hanging on poly pipe. Then it's an easy pull. If it's hanging on steel then things get a bit more complicated and more expensive. Maybe the pump took a dump, they'll do that ya know.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yeah the switch is buzzing a burning because the pump is pulling locked rotor (high) amps. The capacitor and relay being bad makes the motor draw high amperage and trip the overload.

The bladder in the tank does not have to be bad to cause cycling to destroy the pump. Even with a good bladder in the tank, the pump can cycle on/off every minute or two, and there are 1440 minutes in a day. The bladder in the tank gets destroyed from the "normal" cycling every minute or two, which flexes the bladder until it tears. Then when the bladder is torn, the pump can cycle every couple of seconds instead of every couple of minutes, so the start relay, capacitor, pressure switch, and even the pump/motor are next on the hit list.

Pls sketch out the conditions were a pump with good bladder tank would cycle every minute or two.

 

[Valveman]

Pls sketch out the conditions were a pump with good bladder tank would cycle every minute or two.

A 20 GPM pump with a 40 gallon size tank (10 gallon draw), with a faucet or sprinkler running at 10 GPM. The pump would produce 20 GPM. 10 GPM goes to the sprinkler while the other 10 GPM goes to the tank. 1 minute of run time, the pressure will be at 60 and the pump will go off. 1 minute of off time and the 10 GPM sprinkler will have drained the tank to 40 PSI, and the pump cycles on again. This is not uncommon and would result in 720 cycles per day. Double the size of pressure tank and it would cut the cycling to 360 times a day and so on.

With a scenario like that a constant pressure system would only cycle the pump once per day, regardless of the tank size.

 

[SPYDERLK]

A 20 GPM pump with a 40 gallon size tank (10 gallon draw), with a faucet or sprinkler running at 10 GPM. The pump would produce 20 GPM. 10 GPM goes to the sprinkler while the other 10 GPM goes to the tank. 1 minute of run time, the pressure will be at 60 and the pump will go off. 1 minute of off time and the 10 GPM sprinkler will have drained the tank to 40 PSI, and the pump cycles on again. This is not uncommon and would result in 720 cycles per day. Double the size of pressure tank and it would cut the cycling to 360 times a day and so on.

With a scenario like that a constant pressure system would only cycle the pump once per day, regardless of the tank size.

It is uncommon to set up a system that stupidly.

 

[wawoodwa]

I've had the same symptoms. Mine was the run cap shorted. Happened a few times before the ole 1976 Franklin gave up 2 years ago. If you have a ohm meter, and with the cap disconnected from the circuit on both legs, run an ohm meter between the terminals. I would bet it would show continuity with high resistance. Can do the same with the start cap to test it too.

 

[Valveman]

It is uncommon to set up a system that stupidly.

Oh I fully agree, but it is very common as I see it all the time. Even so it is hard to set up a system where every demand matches the output of the pump. I don't know how many times I have told customers that they have a 10 GPM, and they should never to use less than 10 GPM for any long term water use. "Yeah yeah sure sure" they will say. Then they are mad at me 18 months or 3 years later when the pump quits. Only to find out they have been running a 2 GPM drip system 24/7, or they have one of those tractor sprinklers (that only puts out about 3 GPM), with 500' of garden hose tied in knots around the apple tree.

With a constant pressure system they can run a 2 GPM drip system or a 3 GPM sprinkler without cycling the pump to death. And a constant pressure system is the best way to control a pump when you have a 2-3 stage heat pump, or varying irrigation demands. With this type system you don't have to make every zone match the pump, you can make the zones match the requirement of the yard. You can still have a 10 GPM zone in the back yard, but you can safely run a 7 GPM zone in the side yard and a 3 GPM drip down the tree line on the drive way. In this way it can even be a water saving device, as you don't have to use 10 GPM all the time just to keep the pump happy.