Neighbor plans to discharge standing water into creek

[citytransplant]

Approximately half of my 6+ acre (400'x700' rectangular) property is wooded. A seasonal creek traverses my property, running from the northwest corner (bordering my neighbor Bob's property) to southeast corner. The creek overflows occasionally during the spring snowmelt or during periods of heavy rainfall when the ground is saturated. The runoff can flood up to one half of a one-acre horse pasture as well as a significant portion of woods (see diagram). Also, the culvert pipes running under a footbridge that crosses the creek fill to 80%+ capacity during the wet times. Fortunately the flooding typically recedes shortly after heavy rain stops or majority of snow melts.

Yesterday my wife had to retain the local excavator guy to bury a horse of hers. While he was here, he mentioned to my wife that Fred, a neighbor two doors down (approximately 400' to the north, just north of Bob), had approached him recently asking what it would cost to grade a portion of his property where water stands most of the year. In addition to grading, Fred wants to bury a drain pipe across Bob's land, so as to divert the standing water into the creek that traverses my property. The discharge point would actually be on Bob's property, should Bob agree to give the excavator access to dig on his (Bob's) property. The pipe won't be on my property at all, but the water that it discharges certainly will.

Neither Fred nor Bob have contacted me to discuss this. I only speak to them rarely. No way can I afford to have more water on my property; I would prefer less. To date, we have good relations with all of our neighbors and I would like to keep it that way. However I fear the day may come where I'm hiking, hunting, or riding the horse on the trail out back (see diagram) only to see a pipe discharging water into the creek. Thoughts, anyone?

View attachment 525147

 

[Tractor Seabee]

It depends! There are a lot of regulations regarding this type of action from federal, state, and local jurisdiction. Around here even the Indian tribes get involved (personal experience involving logging along a creek). In general, most places it is illegal to dump your water into a tributary that continues downstream. Contaminants keep on flowing downhill.

Changing stream flows is generally not allowed anywhere, even on your own land. Sounds like your neighbor may be one of those who do not believe in discussing actions affecting others with them. Of course many folks are ignorant of or insensitive of the impact of their actions. When I was applying for a logging permit I sent all the adjoining land owners a letter describing it and
asked for any feed back. Only feed back was LOL and thanks for the heads up.

Ron

 

[kcflhrc]

My neighbor to the east of me and I share a pond on the property line. When they divided up the property it just ended up that way. It's just a small pond that has no real use except the wildlife like it. I called him up one night after a few beers and told him some of his water had got on my side of the pond, I thought this guy was going to die laughing. My point is, talk to the guy. That's the problem nowadays, no one talks. Good luck with it, I'm sure you can figure something out.

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds like Fred has a seasonal wetland and wants to drain it acrosss Bob's land into a creek on Bob's land. Sounds like Bob is opening himself up to liability if anyone downstream gets affected by this, or if the Army Corps of Engineers, DNR, state agencies, local agencies, etc... find out Bob is draining a wetland, Bob might be in for big trouble.

Anywho, best to talk to the parties involved first.... but keep everything documented on paper with times, dates, parties involved, who said what, etc... just in case it goes south in the future.

I've seen neighbor disputes about drainage go badly when I was a kid.... one of my first recolections of grown men behaving badly.

 

[dodge man]

Just a guess here, but standing water if it gets enough rain, ends up over flowing into that creek anyway. I can't see the attachement but I would say depending on the size of the drainage area, this would have very little impact on your property.

I work for a civil engineering firm and we did a storm sewer design for a near by town that had storm water problems. The city guys had built the really nice concrete box, probably 20 feet square. This was suppose to be a detention basin. They did this without any engineering. Instead of a 20 foot square box they needed probably 5 acres of storm water detention. People that don't really understand drainge don't realize on what does and does not affect drainage. In your case unless you have a really small drainage area on this creek and he is adding a very large drainage area to it, it will have minimal impact.

 

[teejk]

"Seasonal creek" is called a "ditch" or a "gulley" around here. Driving through sugar beet country in Minnesota last fall I saw a lot of work being done to fields to help them drain better so I think the old idea of "wetlands" has been modified (finally IMHO). The question for you is how long that "gulley" will stay wet. Mosquitos and other things might be a problem but being "seasonal" (key word "non-navigable") I doubt you'll have a say.

 

[rustyshakelford]

It's a creek. You own what is on your property and can control that and only that. If he wants to correct his poor drainage and divert some water into the creek on his property that's his deal. Where it gets weird is crossing his place and going thru your neighbors. However, that's between them. Each state has different rules on waterways. Check with the state but by reading it you don't seem happy that someone can add water to a creek that was on the property when you bought. Some things you can't control and just have to deal with it. I agree it's not ideal but welcome to having a creek on your property. I've lost my 8.5'x20' culvert twice last year and once this year due to the creek we have. It sucks, but it's part of it

Brett

 

[thatguy]

Sounds like Fred has a seasonal wetland and wants to drain it acrosss Bob's land into a creek on Bob's land. Sounds like Bob is opening himself up to liability if anyone downstream gets affected by this, or if the Army Corps of Engineers, DNR, state agencies, local agencies, etc... find out Bob is draining a wetland, Bob might be in for big trouble.

Anywho, best to talk to the parties involved first.... but keep everything documented on paper with times, dates, parties involved, who said what, etc... just in case it goes south in the future.

I've seen neighbor disputes about drainage go badly when I was a kid.... one of my first recolections of grown men behaving badly.

I have several friends that specialize in this area and its a HUGE issues if you mess with wetlands.. All of the agencies listed above can and will have issues with him for draining that area, unless he is paying to offset it with land somewhere else..

Brian

 

[John Fitzgerald]

I don't think it will have much impact. The wet spot drains into the creek eventually as is. It will have much less impact than someone putting in a few houses upstream with a lot of concrete around.

 

[Mendonsy]

I suggest that you contact your local N.Y. DEC office. They are the ones who will probably have jurisdiction.