Water In; Water Out

[jinman]

When we build in the country, two of our most important projects are our water well and septic system. These are major expenses and require regular upkeep and maintenance.

For water wells, I'm curious about solutions and tips from others related to water testing/treatment, building a well house, specific equipment likes/dislikes (pumps, holding tanks with/without bladders, water softeners, etc.) and plumbing tips.
For wastewater, what about standard septic systems with absorption fields as compared to aerobic systems? What are some tips for maintenance (like adding copper sulfate to keep out tree roots). I have an aerobic system I am very happy with, but my service contract is up in one year. Has anyone had experience doing their own service? Horror stories for either type system?

My water well (located in Wise Co. TX) is 385' feet deep. I have a Gould brand submersible pump with 5 year guarantee. my tank is 80 gallon, galvanized and I have no type of treatment on my water. Although it sometimes has a slight smell, I have no staining of fixtures. The well is only two years old, but those two years have been drought years for this part of Texas and I have had no problems with water supply. I've attached a photo of my wellhouse just after I built it. The little "doghouse" looking extension actually covers the well. My driller suggested that I build it that way so if/when the pump has to be pulled, only the doghouse has to be removed rather than the whole well house./w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

If anyone is interested in further discussion on this or the septic system, I'll be glad to follow up with more./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif


JimI

 

[Bird]

JimI, we have a "community" water system which buys the water from the city, so I haven't had any experience with water wells for several years now. However, I, too, have an aerobic sewer system and am very happy with it; had a septic system before, but this ground does not perk well at all, so there are lots of problems with a lot of the septic systems in the area. But when you say <font color=blue>Has anyone had experience doing their own service?</font color=blue>, you make me wonder a bit. When I first checked into this type of system, I was told that there was a state law that required you to maintain a service contract with a licensed installer, but that there was no one to enforce it so you could do it yourself. Well, I agree that I could very easily do it myself; however, we have a "county sanitarian" who does enforce that law. So we have no choice but to maintain a service contract in Navarro County. Mine costs me $200 a year because I use folks I trust. Another guy offered to do it for $125 a year, but I don't know whether I could trust him or not; kind of like paying a little more to buy your tractor from a dealer you trust./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[jinman]

Bird, I have a Norweco Singulair System (www.norweco.com) manufactured in Norwalk, Ohio. The tanks are concrete instead of fiberglas so they are not likley to pop out of the ground in a heavy rainstorm. Of course, you and I share the same requirements for inspection, but I suspect all these requirements are State of Texas mandates instead of a particular county. Each county can be stricter, but the state sets minimum requirements.
I have to do some checking, but I believe you can do your own inspections and servicing, but you have to attend training and become qualified/certified to perform service. Essentially, you have to have the same qualification as the service company. I'll do some more checking on this, but the $200 per year is not bad. Is that every 4 mos. for you too?

How many sprinkler heads and what radius do you have? I have two heads that have a 30' radius and rotate 360º. I have a separate grey water system that turns my laundry water out on the ground. currently only the bathroom and kitchen are on my system. So far, I am very pleased with this system, but it's only 1 year old, so we will see if I feel the same way in about 5 years.


JimI

 

[cowboydoc]

Hmmmm, where I'm at we just have the well cap with the pressure gauge on top and that is it. My holding tank is in the house at the house I built a couple of years ago. At the new place though I'm putting it underground. This way if I do build over there I won't have to move it from the barn to the house and it only costs another $100 to do it that way. No wellhouse or anything. I will try and get pics tomorrow. The well system I just had drilled two days at the new place is the same setup. I went with red jacket pumps, they are a bit more but also have a 10 year warranty. As far as septic goes in my opinion the sand filter setup is the only way to go. Nothing to maintain at all and will probably last longer than the house itself.

 

[Bird]

JimI, I have the Hydro-Action G-500 system (2 concrete and one fiberglass tanks), made in Kountze, TX, and the whole house is on it, plus the condensation from the air-conditioning system is plumbed into the last tank. And it sounds like we have the same two sprinkler heads, about a 30' radius and 360 degree rotation. My brother has the same system with just one sprinkler head. And of course, the service contract is for an inspection every 4 months. You could do your own legally if you want to go to the training and get licensed. Mine is 4 years old this month, and the air pump had to be replaced in January (lasted 3.5 years). The original pump was not repairable or rebuildable; the new one is. My brother also had to replace his pump after 2 years and now the current one has been running 3 years.

Bird

 

[Alan L.]

I have a whitewater 500 gallon per day aerobic system. It is 5 months old and the last month or so we have been having odor problems, coming from the last tank and the water at the 2 sprinkler heads. The plumber checked with Whitewater and and decided it was starved for air. I live in a 890 square foot area inside a metal building. The sewer vents are one-way check valves inside the building - air gets in when needed, but the smell doesn't get out. Anyway, those things don't let in near enough air, so the plumber extended one out the side of the building and it is supposed to improve in a week or so. I sure hope so.

I noticed today that one of my sprinklers no longer ocillates - it is spraying in one spot. I guess I need to call him again - he lives about a half-mile away on the same country road and I've know him all my life - he has been a plumber all his life.

When I put in the septic I had to sign some sort of document swearing that I would maintain a maintenance agreement on the system even after the initial 2 years runs out.

As for our water well, last July we drilled a 500" well into the second layer of the woodbine aquifer. The pump was set at 420', a Goulds that lasted a month and went out. During that time our water was not clearing up, so when they pulled the pump they went back with a Sta-right or something like that at 399' to try to stop churning up the water so much. The well produces well - about 35-40 GPM. The pump is a 5HP 240 volt monster.

For fear of the sulfur smell, we put in a 220 gallon galvanized tank, but we have never had any problem with the smell - have never smelled anything. I would prefer a bladder tank, especially since you can tap into the line anywhere and have pressure. You also have to charge the galvanized tank with air every now and then to prevent water-logging (air being absorbed into the water).

We put our tank inside the metal building about 50' from the well, and I bought an insulated fiberglass wellhead cover to put over the wellhead, but I have not installed it yet because I need to build up the grade around the wellhead to cover some of the pipes and stuff. The well casing is about 24" about ground and has a steel sleave on it.

I got a water test kit over the internet and our water tested negative for iron, sulfur, copper, hardness, natrites, nitrates, and bacteria. It tastes great - the only problem is that can get cloudy, although it seems more and more clear all the time especially the last month. Our toilets still have grey mud in the tanks from what came out of the well early on. I am hoping the water continues to clear up. We have a Waterpik faucet filter that clears it up when its cloudy, just for drinking water. Lately we have not been using it because the water actually has a better taste without it.

The water test high in pH and high alkalinity, and was concerned about watering plants. However I took my test kit to town and tested the city well water we have been using to water our plants in town with for 20 years. Same reading, so I'm not too worried about it.

I would really like to run some water lines all over the property because I find it very difficult to get everything watered, dragging hoses everywhere from our one outside faucet.

Our septic stinks and our water is cloudy sometimes, but life is great in the country!!!

Alan L., TX

 

[Bird]

Alan, I'm not sure I understand about sewer vents with check valves. Of course our house has 3 sewer vents, straight up through the roof. And our system is also a 500 gallon per day system and we had to sign that same document (a copy filed at the courthouse with the deed to the property) that we'd maintain a service contract. And the installer said to call immediately if we ever smelled anything because there would be something wrong. I guess he was right; we've never had any odor. One day I happened to be walking by one of the sprinkler heads when it came on and hit me full broadside. I got soaked, but no odor at all to it; just like clean water. A sprinkler head not rotating is probably a 5 minute, or less, repair; may have gotten a little piece of debris in it.

Bird

 

[jinman]

Alan, thanks for the info. I've never heard of the Whitewater aerobic septic system. Do they have a website? It seems to me that if you have odor INSIDE your house, your sewer vent and traps are not working properly. In some instances, the p-traps can actually have the water sucked out of them by vacuum which develops in the system. When this happens, you get vapors back inside your dwelling. Does your water get sucked down in your commode when you aren't flushing? I may be way off target here, but it seems to me that your sewer vent should be outside rather than inside.

Your aerobic system should have an air pump and agitator which treats your wastewater. If this system is working properly, every bit of the smell is gone even before the chlorine treatment removes all trace bacteria. Like Bird, I have been "showered" a couple of times by my sprinklers and I can tell you that my water is completely clear and odor free.
The air gets into my system from a dedicated inlet in the lid of the agitator assembly. I never heard of a system which draws air through the sewer vent, but I really don't know why that wouldn't work unless the check valves get stuck and then it would draw your water out of your traps as I mentioned earlier. Let us know how this goes. Many of the systems have an agitator/aerator motor that runs continuously. Mine runs 1/2 hr on and 1/2 hr off. As I said, so far it has worked perfectly, but I turn my grey water out on the ground in an area where it spreads over a wide area and just waters trees and grass. My system is not being used anywhere near it's capacity, but my neighbor has the same system and with heavy usage, he has had no trouble except for a sprinkler head he "mowed" down.

I'm not sure where in TX you are located, but "woodbine" sounds pretty familiar. My brother lives in Whitesboro and gets his water from a water coop called Woodbine. Are you in NE TX? I'd be pretty concerned about your cloudy water because of the deposits in piping and valves throughout you plumbing. The water in my well (10 mi. South of Bowie, TX) cleared up after running overnight and has been crystal clear ever since. It is very soft (very little soap needed) and I have almost no staining in my toilet and shower. One interesting thing is that it makes good coffee, but will not penetrate a paper coffee filter properly. This might be because it is so soft the filter absorbs the water and swells, but I have to buy drinking water to make coffee or only make 1/2 pot because the filter basket will fill and overflow before the coffee drains out. I have a "Pur" water filter on any water I drink, so I'm sure it is not particles in the water stopping up the filter. After all, the coffee itself is particles.

I am really blown away by the size of your tank. I cannot imagine needing a 220 gallon tank. With your 5 hp pump, do your lights get dim when it comes on?/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif It sounds like you are getting ready to run a dairy farm with that much water.
My water tank has a check valve in it which recharges the air continually. Everytime the pump shuts off, air is allowed to flow into the inlet pipe to relieve the head pressure. When the pump starts, this air goes into the tank. As air builds up in the tank, a float valve detects that the water is low and lets enoung of the air out that the water level returns to normal. The system works well and the pump never has to start under load. Are you sure your system doesn't have something similar?

I know what you mean about dragging hoses. I have a 560 sq. ft. cabin which I live in until I get my house built (a totally different set of frustrations). I've seeded with fescue and rye and water often. When I finish my house, I WILL install a sprinkler system.
Keep us informed about you systems. I sure hope all you odor problems clear up, but I agree with you. I'd say the smelliest day in the country is better than the sweetest day in the city./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif



JimI

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Bird,

I'm here in Michigan and pretty familiar with the local septic systems. Our systems appear to be nothing like you guys in Texas are using at all. Can someone explain to me what the "sprinkler heads" are for? And what EXACTLY comes out of them? Is this grey water from the washing machine or treated sewage from the bathroom? If it's the latter you must have one heck of a system.

Here, we use a septic tank with a drainfield. May new tank is 1000 gallons. All waster water runs into this tank where bacteria break down the solids, leaving liquid and ash. (The ash settles to the bottom and must be pumped out every 5 years or so.) The water runs off into either a leach bed (drain field), or the new "Hi-Tek" option-- a run of "Infiltrator" (sp?).

I chose the infiltrator. These are large plastic trays that look like coffin lids with lots of louvered vents. They snap together at the ends to make any size field you need, and a number of different shapes. They must be installed with the ground underneath very level and the local Sanitarian is known for being a stickler on this. The whole shebang is buried and our waste water goes back into the ground where it came from.
We have mostly sand, with pockets of clay and bedrock is a couple of hundred feet deep so excellent drainage. The farthest South I've been is MO, but I know the rock can get real close to the surface down there. Am I correct you are describing a system that deals with this rock layer?

SHF

 

[Bird]

SHF, you have an "anaerobic" septic system, and there's still more of those around here than anything else; however, more and more people are going to the "aerobic" systems because instead of the effluent going underground, it's sprayed out through ordinary lawn sprinkler heads to water the yard. And of course, one of the primary reasons for going with the aerobic system is when you have clay, as we do, that does not "perk" well at all; i.e., water soaks in very, very slowly. So, in rainy weather in the early spring, or if you have a lot of company using the facilities and run too much water through the old septic systems, they can't handle the volume. With our system, I never worry about overloading it. I could describe the system, and will be glad to answer any questions you might have about them, but it might be easier if you just look at the manufacturers' web sites. I haven't looked at the ones listed previously, but my Hydro-Action can be seen at http://www.hydroaction.com.

Bird