Property enchroachment question 1.

[slydog]

Hi guys,
I would really appreciate your thoughts, suggestions on a couple of issues I have regarding my property in Arksansas.
I went over this weekend and met with the surveyor, who walked the entire perimeter of my 16 acres with me and showed me all the corner markers and boundary lines which are clearly marked on all corners with pins. We then also flagged all the boundary lines between these corners.

The first issue that we found; The RV park east of our property has a cabin built at the extreme North West corner of their property. It is about 10 feet off the edge of our property at the top. This total property line is about 1,000 feet long as it heads downhill to the paved road at the bottom. About 200 feet down the hill from this cabin, In a little ditch it would have to cross, I noticed a six inch sewer line cleanout sticking out of the dirt. This is about 15 feet on our side of the property line, obviously running under our property at that point. Back up to the cabin, and further down the hill to their septic pond from this cleanout I have absolutely no idea of where this runs under our property, but obviously quite some ways at least.

We just bought this land about 8 months ago, and they just bought this resort about 4 months ago. We both bought from the same owner, and she never mentioned this to me, I do not know if she did to them or not. She was the one who had originally had all these surveys done in order to split up the properties. I have not yet contacted the new park owners, so I don't even know if they know. My first question is:

What do I need to do about this? I know I need to do something as I don't want to lose any land to prescriptive easement type issues possibly. I do not want to sell the park any of my land...it is already less than I would like to have on that side of my creek. I definitely do not think I should just let it ride and not say or do anything. Any suggestions of what I should do? How would yall deal with this?

The other situation I will cover in a seperate post.

Thanks for your help!

 

[JimR]

I would contact whoever is in charge at the county level or town level on property taxes and the building/health inspector and have them check this out. It sounds like the previous owner pulled the wool over someone's eyes by forgetting to mention about that pipeline. You should have them move it to the other side of your property line asap. I wouldn't sell any land either to accommodate this messup.

 

[slydog]

Encroachment 2:

I have attached a rough drawing I did in paint to help with this question. The blue lines represent the boundaries of a 2 acre parcel that was cut off of the south end of our property before we bought it. The brown box is the double wide house, (I say house because it looks more like a house than a trailer, but still obviously a trucked in house), that the other property owner has just recently installed. The yellow is the gravel road which belongs to us on our property(the white area) but to which an easement 25' from centerline is allowed to the 2 acre parcel. The orange triangle represents an area at least 75' along the road leg that the home owner allowed to be dozed (without our knowledge or even contacting us prior to) so the house could be brought onto their property. Not only that...they have dumped a load of limestone gravel and spread it in this area, and are parking their car on it.

I will allow that their easement does include up to 25' from centerline of the road, but it is quite obvious to me they have used much more and are apparently planning to park in this area. It is obvious to me this was done to take advantage of the easement, and then some, in order to keep from having to put their parking spot on their property. The easement I can allow...it is the "then some" that has me worried. The easement would cut the orange triangle area depicted down quite substantially.


1. Does easement allow one to make a parking pad within that space? ( I understand they are way over that into my property, I just want to clarify that they can use an easement area for personal parking area.)

The property owner was not home all day friday while we were there so I did not get to speak with her. Her mother was, but she is about 80 years old, and I didn't feel the need to discuss it with her or possibly upset her. However I found out later at the court house that she is also listed as joint owner. That is the kicker, she and her daugter, who is probably late 50's will be living here together. I know that if I don't stop this encroachment that prescriptive easement will definitely prevail in seven years. The boundary lines are clearly marked with orange pins, ribbons down the tree line etc.

My wife says we should send a registered letter advising them of the encroachment and telling them to move their parking area off of our property, Which brings me to the next point: the area they dozed across a part of our property to move this house through. I know there were a few small trees somewhere around this area, but I'm not sure now where they fell and on who's property, but I'm pretty miffed that we were not contacted at all prior to this thing being brought in and our land being cleared. I don't want to sue the two old women, but I definitely feel we were pretty much run rough shod over and the situation was taken advantage of without so much as a phone call. I feel like we are being forced into the position of being the "bad guy". The younger woman here worked for and was good friends with the woman we bought the property from, and I get the feeling she still feels like because it was her friends, she can do what she wants to without regard to us. Also, she and her mother are long times locals. I'm sure we are considered the outsiders.

2. How should I tactfully handle this situation? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (PS. I have read most of the "easement" threads on TBN but I really can't glean anything helpful from them regarding out situation.)

 

[DannyD]

Find out for SURE what is yours, theirs, and under easements. Then inform them of your findings with proof. Let them know you intend to prevent encroachment on your property and ask them at this time to remove any part of the parking area that does encroach on your property. If you in the end have to remove this on your own, by all means charge them for the time etc. Put up a fence if need be to prevent them from using what is yours. Remind them also that you beleive there were some trees that were removed, and that this value was destroyed without your consent.

Check one thing also. Make sure the mobile home company did not have a legal ability to bulldoze the area. I remember many years ago a house moving firm cut down trees along a route to set a house, angering many neighbors. Turns out the courts gave them the right to remove any and all obstacles to doing there job or setting this house. Many times the govt has way too many powers.

Be delicate but firm, confirm all your findings, and above all be careful. A parking area maintained by someone else that you may be able to use at sometime is not worth even a few thousand spent on crooks (meant lawyers). If all looks as if no good end is in the works, make a written deal, she maintains your part of the parking lot.

As for the drain tile you have found, my guess would be that is was there when the property was one parcel, and yes they forgot to tell you it is there. checking on the location with the local health dept is the best line. If it was installed illegally, although it may be very safe, you would have grounds to make them move it. You may also have an easement that you were not told about. Either way my bet is this is going to stink and be a pia.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The easement wording will tell you if they can park there or not. If the easement is worded so they can use the land for ingress and egress then the obvious answer is NO they can NOT park there. You can NOT let any of this slide.

 

[btolle]

I really think that you should go to the Title Company and ask to see their lawyer and discuss this with him before doing anything else. It won't cost you anything to lay it out for him and see what he says. Title Company lawyers are more knowledgable about property matters than the average lawyer. Besides, if the Title Company missed something (the sewer line) they may have some liability and will want to minimize their liability by getting that issue handled for you. While they probably don't have liablilty in the parking area issue they may be willing to help you with that at a reduced charge or even free to keep you happy.

I am assuming the survey shows both encroachments on your property. If it doesn't, have the surveyor redraw it so it does even if you have to pay him. You need his 'seal' and signature on the survey as proof that these encroachments were found by a Licensed Surveyor. Even if he cannot determine when the sewer line goes have him draw in the visible portion on the survey.

One thing I noticed is the "25' from centerline" easement. That means the easement is 50' wide total so take that into account when looking at the situation. And have the surveyor lay out the boundary lines of the easement on the survey drawing.

This is one of those situations that could easily get out of hand very fast. I strongly advise that you talk to the Title Company attorney at once and see what he says before you do anything else.

Whatever you do, DO NOT get into any verbal discusions with the other parties until after you talk to the attorney. I would avoid meeting or talking to any of them until this is cleared up. Anything you say will be used against you! On top of that, if they start to befriend you they will be even more offended when you tell them to move their "stuff" off your land.

DISCLAIMER: I am a Licensed Texas Real Estate Saleperson. The above is not be be construed as legal advice. If any doubt about any real estate matter consult with an attorney.

Bill Tolle

 

[DannyD]

Assuming there is a title company involved, this is the best advice yet. You did get title insurance right?
Starting here could save you more than just a wad of money.

 

[slydog]

Very good advice. Thank you all. I have left a message with the surveyor to call me back, for one. I will call the title company in the morning. Why do all my dilemnas occur on sat/sun ??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Danny, the problem I have with even if the House company is allowed to doze to install.... they had a wide open 125' area south of the "burmuda triangle", where their land fronts the gravel road all the way if you consider the easement, where they could have brought the house right up on to the property. They chose to do it around the backside of their property rather than tear up their land.

Thanks again all! I will keep you posted. I don't want this to turn into another 32 page easement thread if I can help it!

 

[slydog]

One more quick question for now. Would a untility easement cover a private septic system sewer line? I wouldn't think so, but that is just my thinking? There is no such easement listed on my deed or Title insurance or survey for that particular boundary, even if it is covered, but I was curious.

 

[JimR]

Sounds like they didn't want to disturb their front yard and felt it was fine to disturb your property. The title company is a great idea of the place to start. I also agree to not talk with the neighbors about this until you find out all the facts. Take plenty of pictures. Pictures tell the story.