Water Pump advice needed.

[EddieWalker]

As some of you know, my lake is dug and I'm just waiting on the rains to fill it up. This could happen in one terrible storm, or it might take years to happen. Right next to my lake is my property line, which happens to be a creek that flows year round. There is a very deep hole in this creek that would just be perfect for pumping water from and into my lake.

Call me impatient, but I want to start pumping water. I've never bought a pump before and the more I looke, the more confused I'm getting. There is no electricity to that area, nor even close, so that's not an option. I could run my generator and pump with an electric pump that way, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. I've looked at and seriously considered ram pumps, but even if I build it big, it will only give me a small amount of water compared to what I need.

One acre foot of water equals 325,851 gallons. I have 4.3 acres of surface water when full, so that's 1,401,159 gallons for every foot of depth. My average depth is around 8 feet, so that means I need 11,209,274 gallons of water!!!!

I've thought about a PTO driven pump on my CUT, but that's just too long to have it running. So that's out.

The best solution I've come up with besides doing nothing and letting Mother Nature do this, is a gas powered pump. Now the reason for my post.

Harbor Freight has a 5.5 hp Central Machinery 2 inch pump on sale for $179.99 plus shipping. It's a no name engine and you have to prime it to get it to pump. It's rated at 8,700 gallons per hour, or 208,800 gallons every 24 hours of non stop use. This pump is too small for my needs as it would take two months to fill my lake of non stop use.

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

They have a larger 6.5 hp pump that will do 15,000 gallons an hour that is more in the range of what I think I need. It's the same unknown engine make. They also have the small 2 inch pump with a Robin engine. I think Robin makes a decent engine, but I've never had one, so it's just rumor to me. Price for that one is $300 wth another one they call a fire fighter pump that is $469.

If I'm going to spend over $300, than Northen Tool has a 6hp with a Robin EX17 commercial grade engine that self primes for $429.99 plus $37.15 for shipping. They also have all the hoses and attachments I'll need, but that's kind of seperate to this question. This is a 3 inch pump that is rated for 15,376 gallons per hour, or 369,024 gallons over 24 hours. Comparing the two pumps is like night and day. This one has a much better pump too.

NorthStar Water Pump — 15,376 GPH, 6 HP, 3in., Model# SE 80 EX |Gas Powered Water Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment

Than I went and looked on Ebay and really got confused. This first listing has a 6.5 hp pump that has a Honda "like" engine. What does that mean? They say it uses Honda parts and that they are completely interchangable. The seller has 1,665 sales with 99.9 positive feedback. The pump sounds good and it's rated for over 380,000 gallons in 24 hours. He has a buy it now price of $239 with free shipping. Hmm, sounds too good to be true, but when I look at his feedback, that's all he does is sell these pumps. Lots and lots of them.

eBay: GX-200 WATER TRASH PUMP WP-30X , 3'' 61/2 HP WARRANTY (item 180037775770 end time Oct-21-06 08:53:20 PDT)

Then I looked around on Ebay some more and found what looks like the same identical pump from another seller, but his buy it now price is $79.99 and he wants $110 for shipping, or a total of $189.99. I can't tell if there is any difference between the two pumps from the discriptions or the pictures. This guy has 76,233 feedbacks with 98.2 percent positive feedback. With that level of sales, I expect some loons and problems, which I saw when reading his feedback. Mostly people with one or two feedbacks themselves. This seller seems to sell all sorts of stuff, kind of like Harbor Freight, but on Ebay. I didn't look at all his positive feedback to see what he'd sold, but in the several dozen that I did look at, not one was for a pump.

eBay: NEW 6.5 HP 3" TRASH WATER PUMP EPA APPROVED HEAVY DUTY (item 160040695962 end time Oct-21-06 09:21:10 PDT)

Is this too good to be true? Am I wasting my money on cheap, no name pumps? Has anybody ever used or have a 3 inch pump like what I'm looking at?

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[rdln]

What is preventing you from putting a drain pipe from the creek into the pond? government? neighbors? gravity?

I think the pto route will be the least trouble free, why do you think the tractor would run too long? Thats what diesels are good for.

anything self contained would need an large capacity gas tank added

my 2" pacer pump runs about 2 hours on the stock tank and fills my 5/8-3/4 acre pond about a half inch resulting in a lot of refueling work for a 4 acre lake!

 

[mjarrels]

Eddie,

Might want to talk to your local fire department for recommendations... most fire departments use large pumps for dewatering.

mark

 

[tommu56]

Eddie,

What about a water ram? No gas no enegry other than water flow.

3-inch ram, can move up to 16,000 gal.

and need verry little drop ~1 ft can push up 10ft

The Original! All About Atlas Ram Pumps

they might cost a little more but over time I'm sure it will pay for it self.


tom

 

[NSBound]

Then I went and looked on Ebay and really got confused. This first listing has a 6.5 hp pump that has a Honda "like" engine. What does that mean?

Eddie, I can tell you that the "Honda-like" pump is a knock-off, or clone, of the Honda engine, and is likely not worth considering. Honda makes top quality engines and is chasing some of these off-shore pirates who make these and import them and I believe there are trademark and patent issues. If you do buy one, I would consider it a throw-away if it fails, good luck getting any repairs or replacements under any warranty. And have a look at their outstanding warranty too - 30 whole days!

 

[Egon]

Will it be legal for you to use creek water?

How far upstream would you have to run a pipe to be above the bottom level of your pond or is this possible?

Have you looked at diesel engined pumps using an old style lister diesel?

Most of the small gas engines like the Robin 7.5 HP. on my generator have a rated life span of 1000 hours or so.

 

[EddieWalker]

Steve,

Gravity wont work as the creek is about six feet below the full water level of the lake. I could siphon from the creek to the lake for the first few feet, but it would take a very long time to get any significant water using that method, even with a very large hose, which makes it very difficult.

I kind of calculate that at over 15,000 gallons an hour it will take 26 or more days to fill up the lake running 24/7. That's 624 hours I'd have to put on my engine that I would rather not. Of course, I don't know how many gallons per hour a PTO pump would move either, so my calculations could be off. I also wonder if the creek could handle more than 15,000 gallons an hour? I kind of think that's about the most I can pull from it, but that's just a guess.

As for a larger fuel tank, I happen to have a little project S10 Blazer that I don't need the fuel tank for it. I'll pull that and mount it above the pump and use gravity to fuel the pump. I think it's around a 15 gallon tank, give or take a few gallons. It's plenty to run 24 hours at a time.

Mark,

I'm trying to do this on the cheap side. I don't want total junk, but I don't want to pay for quality either. I would imagine that a fire department would have a pretty good quality pump for there type of needs. I'd also expect they would pay a couple of grand for that sort of reliability.

Tom,

I really love the idea of a water ram and have come real close to build one of several occasions. I've priced out the materials and can build a 3 inch one for about the same price as these gas water pumps. The problem I have with them is just what you mentioned. 16,000 gallons a day won't be enough to accomplish anything. It will take 625 days to fill 10 million gallons. With evaporation being what it is in the summer, I don't think it will even keep up with what I lose there. It's just not enough water to be worth the expense and effort to build one.

NSBound,

Thanks, that's kind of what I thought about the engines too, but would it be better than a Wahoo or a Tekamush engine? There is another pump that the seller has that's called a Red Hawk. I saw one company that sells them for $429 with free shipping and it looks identical to the one listed on Ebay by this same seller. It has a ETQ engine. Has anybody heard of ETQ? I can find a few sellers who sell stuff with ETQ engines, but most are diesel, very few are gas engines.

eBay: WATER TRASH PUMP 3" GAS BIG 6.5 hp FREE SHIPPING !!! (item 180039676108 end time Oct-26-06 16:38:12 PDT)

Egon,

Creek water is perfectly legal for my use, I just can't dam the creek or affect it's flow, but I have full water rights to it's use.

I considered running a pipe up the creek to a point it would be above my water line, but that would take over 2,000 feet of pipe and put me well into two different properties that I'd be trespassing on. The illegal part of it wasn't such an issue as the cost and dificulty of running the pipe through the middle of the creek. Lots of snakes in that creek!!!! hahaha

I really don't want to put a bunch of cash into this and really got started after seeing what that pump was for sale at Harbor Freight. Mother Nature will fill it in time, but I'm being impatient. If I can hurry the process along, than I will, but only if it's not too much money. I haven't seen any diesel pumps, new or used, that I'm willing to buy. Just too much cash.

A thousand hours on the engine would be just about right. When it burns up, I wonder if I could just buy an replacement engine? I'm also thinking that if it runs a thousand hours, than it's a realy good deal and I'll just throw it away and get another.

An additional benifit to buying the pump is that during the dry months, I can top off the lake from time to time. This has allot of apeal to me.

Thanks for all the fast replies. I'm sort of leaning to this latest model that I just posted the link to in this reply.

Eddie

 

[tommu56]

Eddie
If you only have to go <10 ft use one of the pumps you are looking at and make a jet pump to move more water.

we use these to dewater homes along the river when they flood.

for us a piece of 8"sdr35 pull a piece 1 1/2 hose 1/3 the way in (rope to discharge end will work) drop in creek and start gas pump in water pump in to hose in pipe. suction shoukd devolepe in pipe.
we have found some times "trash pumps" dont devolep enough presure

we can transfer about 1000 gpm this way with a 100 gpm pump

tom

 

[EddieWalker]

Tom,

You've lost me. I have some 6 inch SDR 35 pipe, would that work?

You need to be more specific because this is something totally new to me and you're way over my head on what you're doing here.

Thanks



I found some more information on the ETQ pump. It's made by a company called Eastern Tools & Equipment, Inc.

EasternTools.com - Eastern Tools & Equipment Inc.

And they seem to be a real company. They have to gas engines that they sell, the 5.5 hp and the 6.5 hp. There website has the same pump that I linked to on Ebay and even has links to Spec Sheet and a Product Manuel.

EasternTools.com - TP3200CL-4

Has anybody heard of this company or actualy have one of there products?

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[MrJimi]

Eddie, what about renting one for like for a week? it would be better and bigger than would be affordable and if it stops, they just get you another one.
Jim