? to LEO's on ambulance ROW

[Bird]

Darryl, to the best of my knowledge, Texas has no state law limiting the speed of emergency vehicles. But Dallas had (may or may not still have, but I don't think they do) such an ordinance. I have no idea whether other states have such laws, but doubt it. I'd be very surprised if any police officer stopped you. But of course, as has been pointed out, the emergency vehicle driver is not relieved of the duty to operate the vehicle safely.

[Soundguy]

I'm glad i wasn't the only person wondering about this. Thanks for posting.

soundguy

Originally Posted by Kernopelli

Interesting thread. I have wondered much of this myself from both the perspective of a citizen yielding right of way and an individual actively driving in or escorting an emergency vehicle.
I work for my state's Department of Corrections. We are not Police Officers but Peace Officers, but we do have certain entitlements within the scopes of our duties..... but it all seems to be very grey to me and getting a straight answer from DOC is impossible. I have often been assigned as an escort officer in an ambulance with an injured or sick inmate being transported to an outside hospital or as an armed officer operating a chase vehicle behind the ambulance. I did this only two nights ago and it isn't uncommon for either vehicle to exceed the posted speed limit by as much as 30-35 (or more) MPH in these circumstances. I have often wondered if we are operating within our legal rights and what would the outcome be if this fell under scrutiny from an outside law enforcement agency. I'm not sure this has cleared anything up for me but would like to hear more.

[Beavis]

Originally Posted by Kernopelli

Interesting thread. I have wondered much of this myself from both the perspective of a citizen yielding right of way and an individual actively driving in or escorting an emergency vehicle.
I work for my state's Department of Corrections. We are not Police Officers but Peace Officers, but we do have certain entitlements within the scopes of our duties..... but it all seems to be very grey to me and getting a straight answer from DOC is impossible. I have often been assigned as an escort officer in an ambulance with an injured or sick inmate being transported to an outside hospital or as an armed officer operating a chase vehicle behind the ambulance. I did this only two nights ago and it isn't uncommon for either vehicle to exceed the posted speed limit by as much as 30-35 (or more) MPH in these circumstances. I have often wondered if we are operating within our legal rights and what would the outcome be if this fell under scrutiny from an outside law enforcement agency. I'm not sure this has cleared anything up for me but would like to hear more.

If I understand your scenario; you are following an ambulance in a chase vehicle(DOC vehicle). Unless you are operating a properly equipped emergency vehicle(lights and siren), you are not operating legally and you are taking a big risk. May never get in trouble by a LEO, but if something ever happened, you'd be up the creek without a paddle. (Speaking about Kansas, not Illinois)

[Soundguy]

See.. that's the kind of stuff that needs to be in black and white... Enforcement and prosecution can be by discretion.. but the guideline needs to be clear as to application.. one way or another..

soundguy

[atgreene]

We routinely push vehicles into intersections (not with contact) to make our way through. It is a generally accepted, as the option is I'm going to stand on the Federal Q2 siren and the Glover air horns until you move. I feel bad sometimes, but most folks who don't want to move seem to be lost and unsure of what to do. Most intersections we have to go into oncoming traffic to get through. When we do, at least the traffic coming at us has no excuse for not seeing us.

Either way, we're coming through, and a 40,000 lb fire truck tends to win when push comes to shove, and yes, we've hit/been hit plenty of times. I've had to write a few "Dear Chief" letters.

At one fire station I worked at it was a regular thing. After writing three letters in a year for my drivers being involved with vehicle incursions, I moved on.

As to us stopping, Maine law says we need to operate in due regard. If we're going to a minor call, we're slowing/stopping. If we're responding to a potential life-threatening call, we will push through a little faster, but still with extreme caution.

It is amzaing how many people pull out in front of us. It's a daily thing, I don't know what they think they are gaining, but I sometimes think it's a power thing. They seem to feel that we are forceing them to yield and they pull in front of us to make a point . Doesn't matter to me, as long as we get there safe.

[Bird]

It is amzaing how many people pull out in front of us. It's a daily thing, I don't know what they think they are gaining, but I sometimes think it's a power thing. They seem to feel that we are forceing them to yield and they pull in front of us to make a point

I guess that's possible, but I think in many cases they simply do not hear the siren. I know many people have a radio or stereo going, windows closed, air-conditioner on, etc. and they don't hear the siren. As with most police departments, our sirens were mounted on the roof of the vehicles, so it was louder inside our own vehicle than anywhere else, so we had to train new officers to avoid the tendency to feel that the siren was going to "blow people out of the way" because it just doesn't work that way. In later years, many police departments, and fire departments, learned to put the siren on the front of the vehicles. It's just as good toward the front, almost as good to the sides, and not as loud inside the emergency vehicle.

[atgreene]

All of ours are at or below the bumper, and yet people will look right at you and still pull out. I never understood that mentality. A 40,000 lb firetruck barrelling at you with lights flashing and 2 sirens and an airhorn blowing generally would make you think about siting still.

[Double Orange]

If I have a heart attack!! This is the guy I want driving the bus!

Originally Posted by atgreene

We routinely push vehicles into intersections (not with contact) to make our way through. It is a generally accepted, as the option is I'm going to stand on the Federal Q2 siren and the Glover air horns until you move. I feel bad sometimes, but most folks who don't want to move seem to be lost and unsure of what to do. Most intersections we have to go into oncoming traffic to get through. When we do, at least the traffic coming at us has no excuse for not seeing us.

Either way, we're coming through, and a 40,000 lb fire truck tends to win when push comes to shove, and yes, we've hit/been hit plenty of times. I've had to write a few "Dear Chief" letters.

At one fire station I worked at it was a regular thing. After writing three letters in a year for my drivers being involved with vehicle incursions, I moved on.

As to us stopping, Maine law says we need to operate in due regard. If we're going to a minor call, we're slowing/stopping. If we're responding to a potential life-threatening call, we will push through a little faster, but still with extreme caution.

It is amzaing how many people pull out in front of us. It's a daily thing, I don't know what they think they are gaining, but I sometimes think it's a power thing. They seem to feel that we are forceing them to yield and they pull in front of us to make a point . Doesn't matter to me, as long as we get there safe.

[atgreene]

I don't usually drive, as I'm the Lt. But I give my crew a lot of leeway to get the job done, as long as no one gets hurt. I'm not a fan of some of the rules out there, common sence seems to be the best way to deal with this sort of thing.

[dogtired]

Originally Posted by Soundguy

Got a question to any former or current LEO's, and would like to hear youropinion on it.

Exactly how much leeway are citizens given, by LEO's when the citizens are 'making way' for an ambulance. IE.. At luch at an intersection I was at, an ambulance came thru on the cross street, and due to the specific configuration of the intersection ( 6 way stop ).. a couple guys had to move thru the intersection on a red light, and another 2 guys had to drive right/left ( one each way ) to make way.. this placed the 2nd 2 guys in a traffic lane facing the wrong direction, and the other 2 guys.. thru the intersection on red.

It was safe and orderly.. everybody saw the ambulance.. people flashed headlamps.. and the people moved.. and the ambulance went thru... on green, it took a lil bit for the people to fall back in and clear the respective places they had pulled to.. and then, assumably.. life went on as normal.. yada..yada.. yada..

So what's LEO protocall here? We all know you must yeild ROW to an emergency vehicle.. but in a case where it would otherwise place you in a traffic infraction.. I assume this is specifically addressed under some state statuate.. or other place?

Comments?

soundguy

Ohio Law
Pull to the right side of the road as soon as possible yield right of way to emergency vehicles .
Only thing
I hated was the ones that pulled to the right side of the road on a Hillcrest, it would have been better if they pulled over just a bit sooner or latter.
Being a emergency vehicle does not absolve you of the requirement to be careful when responding lights and siren .