SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains

   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #11  
Glenn,
Safety should always come first!!
As far as my FEL I know about what it can do,also double check my hitch if it should be a chain or a strap when removing a rock or a stump etc..
If I have doubts I just back off and find other means to complete the job,yep I guess the words would be common sense.

Glad to read that you made a stand also feel comfortable on this subject. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Have a /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif tractor time and stay safe.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #12  
I'll have to admit, I'd never thought, until recently, about a chain having enough elasticity to go very far when it breaks or do much damage, but apparently they really do. And a couple of years ago, a guy was moving an old mobile home with the normal, short wheel based, truck and when he pulled off the side of the road, he got stuck. Ground was a bit soft there, even though it was not wet. They had a tandem axle dump truck there and a chain that must have been a hundred feet long and tried to pull the truck and mobile home with the dump truck. The chain broke and a grass fire started immediately; burned off about 10 acres before we got it out. Still don't know whether the spark was from the chain hitting a rock or just links hitting themselves when the chain broke.

Bird
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #13  
I have and will continue to lift items with a chain attached
to the FEL, AND I have worked on the tractor with the bucket raised as high as possible, BUT that was done with the bucket supported by 4" pipe, and the tractor blocked. I wanted absolutely no chance that anything was going to do something that I didn't want it to do. This (is disputable) is something that can be done safely, if proper fore thought is given to it. I've seen a friend take an old wrecker he has and 'hook' up the raised bucket to prevent it from accidently dropping. I prefer the pipe!
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #14  
Brad,
re snapping chains obviously the longer the chain the more "elasticity" it will have and the greater distance it will fly if it breaks. How long was your logging chain and how far was the break from the truck when it snapped back into your tailgate?
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #15  
Guys hold on to your pants here goes.
These are my feelings and or beliefs so if I offend anyone here I'm sorry.

There are alot of good laywers out there but there are also alot of bums as well. If a person has a valid lawsuit where the company has made a defective product --current tire recall--- then a person I feel has the right to sue. But for all those bum lawyers and knuckleheads looking for the easy buck from the big company should be shot. Who ends up paying for the lawsuit--we do the next time we buy the product because the big company passes it's losses from a lawsuit on to it's customers in the form of price increases!

At work I go by the ten-ten rule I start each day with ten fingers and ten toes and I'm going to finish the day with the same amount. I've been called a sissy for wearing a seatbelt in the tractor, but once again it goes back to basic saftey rules and habits that are formed over time. By all means I'm not the perfect saftey man I do alot of unsafe things at times in different areas of my work.

Now to lifting I've got three hooks on my bucket and use them often. I've lifted a tire before and learned from that experience. Will I continue to lift with the bucket yes and why do I say this even after you've brought this safty related issue up? Because I go slow and take my time when lifting it only takes a second to crash something or to flip the tractor. When lifting with a chain it changes the center of gravity that you may have been used to on the tractor and allthough it looks or appears to look safe it's trouble waiting to happen. Another thing here I've got a few thousand hours on my tractor and I know what it's capable of doing. Also I know that at any given moment that a hose can break and the loader could drop. Fact-the first two years in a profession is when most of the worst injuries happen. Why--inexperience--. Yes we all have to learn and we do every day so it's always to take the safe route. You will be happy with my dumb sounding 10-10 rule.

Do I ever go under my loader without it supported NO I would no sooner go under my loader without it properly supported than I would go under a trailer or moterhome without a jackstand. Working under a unsupported loader you have no control of a hose letting go. Using chain on the bucket you have control to drop the load if trouble arises.

So many people are buying items that they aren't used to using ---tractor fel---They don't realize the importance of ballast or center of gravity sometimes until it's too late and an accident has already happened. Then it's never their fault it's who ever made that darn tractor. The tractor is controlled by the operator and he or she should be held to blame for misuse. If you don't feel something is safe backup and regroup. If your innervoice says don't do it then don't. So Glenn if you feel unsafe doing anything with the tractor then don't do it. Because people that are using a piece of machinery scared are much more likley to make a mistake.

I could write a book on dumb moves that I've done on my tractor and lived to talk about them but by the grace of God I'm here to give my views on this be it right or wrong.
My two cents
Gordon
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #16  
Lots of good posts.

Anything you do with a tractor can be inherently dangerous. Lifting 200 lbs with at eye height isn't probably as dangerous as moving the tractor with the bucket empty and the loader all the way in the air. I've been moving car hulks with a chain for about 17 years, along with stumps I couldn't lift. I always keep the bucket as low as possible, even skirting the ground a bit. If you were to drag a car with the bucket higher and were getting some momentum and the car stopped for any reason the tractor might tip. Having a backhoe on the tractor usually prevents that, although in my early fun with my L35 I caught a tree and it's stump I was wrestling just right with one corner of the loader and one rear tire went off the ground in a hurry. Combination of bad "hook" on the stump, fast hydraulics, strong loader and dumb driver.

Most problems are caused by speed, if you are moving something, for instance sometimes I'll carry an engine around with a chain (not anymore since I got my 20 seconds-dont-even-have-to-get-off-the-tractor-to-put-the-forks-on), and when I do (or did!) I move as slow as the tractor will go, that's about .5 mph for us old gear jammers, that's about .00000001 mph for you hydro guys.

I haven't seen a chain snap, I use chains that are WAY over rated for what I'm doing. I used to use chains to hold my Ford on the trailer that are bigger then what I've seen the excavator guys use! And I used those big closeup-links you wrench together, and tied the chain binder handles down (have seen those pop before) of course I'm a safety nut. Still have all my 10 fingers and 14 toes. Makes sense though that you'd could do what smart cable winching guys do, carry a big old ugly tarp or heavy blanket, wet wool! and throw it over the chain. Some guys will put the chain through a couple of tires too. Anything to slow the whip down.

Go slow, be careful and you'll probably be OK.

How does that last statement translate in to a lawyer proof owners manual statement. IT DOESN'T!

del
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains
  • Thread Starter
#17  
"I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY CHAINS"
A One Act Play

Starring: Tractorguy (T} and Kubotalady (K)

T: I have decided to keep on chain lifting with my FEL. Yessirrre, some lift lift here, lift lift there, here a lift, there a lift, everywhere a lift lift ...

K: Oh, really. What's your rationale?

T: Well, basically, I've done it a lot of it in the past, and I want to do it more of it in the future, so I therefore declare it to be virtuous behavior.

K: Yes, we've heard that here. We call it the Bill Clinton Rationalization.

T: How dare you!

K: What about all our warning labels and 37 paragraphs of safety precautions?

T: Well, I have a secret pool of knowledge that informs me that they are all phoney-baloney nonsense. Just the misguided CYA'ing of a bunch of chickendreck executives being scared dreckless by a bunch of out-of-touch, risk-averse pinstriped legal drones.

K: Gee, I thought we were just trying, in good faith, to inform our customers of potentially dangerous situations based on our decades of tractor operation experience all around the world. You mean its all nonsense...even the stuff about ROPS, and seatbelts, and not driving with your bucket high, and not driving crossways on steep slopes, and not carrying a child on your lap when brushhogging, and ...

T: Well, perhaps some of your warnings and labels do make sense, but I have an alternate reason for continuing to chain lift.

K: What's that?

T: Even if all your other warnings and labels are realistic and reasonable, my secret pool of knowledge informs me that the FEL lifting warnings are still nonsense, and my beloved FEL lifting can thus be engaged in with impunity.

K: We have heard that, too. Call it the Christopher Reeve Prediction. Aside from why we put the labels on and who may or may not be liable when FEL injuries occur, doesn't it trouble you that in the real world people are in fact being injured, and property damaged, by FEL lifting mishaps?

T: Not at all. All those people are boneheads, dolts, idiots and otherwise inferior human beings.

K: Well, Brad and Wen have admitted to mishaps when chain lifting. Are they boneheads, dolts, idiots and inferior human beings?

T: Not so fast, my clever Kubotalady. You're not going to trick me into ratting-out my Tractorbynet buddies. Besides, there is a final reason why those injuries and damages won't happen to me.

K: Oh?

T: You see, I have common sense. I'm logical and practical. I have foresight. I prepare. I think. And--here is the coup de gras--I read Tractorbynet. So, I am essentially invulnerable. Nothing can happen to me.

K: Ah, yes ... the Evel Knievel Illusion.

T: Isn't he still alive?

K: Barely. Listen, Tractorguy, has it ever occurred to you that instead of speculating about our labeling motives and the legitimacy of lawsuits, you should be focusing on whether chain lifting is an inherently dangerous activity.

T: What's an inherently dangerous activity?

K: It is one where you cannot foresee or protect against all the dangers. There are too many variables. It is an activity that requires more than common sense and gut feel--it requires formal training plus long years of actual experience. And, even then, unforeseeable dangers remain.
Things like canoeing class 4 rapids, rockclimbing, driving a car . . .

T: Or climbing high on scaffolds.

K: Precisely. Anything where the LOUC may apply with significant frequency.

T: What's the LOUC?

K: Ths Law of Unintended Consequences.

T: I don't remember it. I left all my physics in a bar near Columbia University 30 years ago.

K: Well, perhaps you know it by one of its other names ... Murphy's Law.

T: Murphy? I don't know Murphy. I think he posts on the Compact Tractor Board, not on Tractorbynet.

K: Well, perhaps you might know it by its technical name.

T: What's that?

K: Sh*t Happens.

(curtain)
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #18  
I sure agree on the working platform angle, I see guys all the time doing that in tractor buckets. A true personnel lift can't drop even if a line ruptures, it has to be powered down.

And the pull from multiple spots also is a good idea, I also use a heavy strap and pull from that to lessen shock loads to the hooks, loader arms etc. It all depends on how much force you are applying. And pulling from the drawbar is best, but sometimes difficult with a hoe on the back. I wish there was a rear pulling device from Kubota that could be used on the L35 with the hoe on. I've at times wrapped a
strap around the rear tractor frame but it's a pain to use. I saw a guy a year or so ago that was clearing his land using a Case 580 Backhoe. He was digging up the stumps and the ones he couldn't move around easily with the bucket he was towing to the fire with a big old ugly looking farm tractor with about as many weights on the front as there are cards in a deck! Don't even remember what it was, but the tires were a lot taller then I was.
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #19  
Masterful - your prose rule!!
 
   / SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains #20  
Re: SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Cha

The problem is there are way too many lawyers in this country. 80% of the worlds lawyers live in the U.S. and there is not enough work for all of them, so they make work for themselfs and there buddys. They should put a moratorium on any new lawyers for the next ten years. That might slow down all the frivolous lawsuits. Or better yet charge all the lawyers for court cost if they lose there frivolous case. Of course most politicians are lawyers so I don't think we will see any new laws to that effect ever. So if you are afaid of your tractor, don't use it and pay someone to do the work for you. Or are you worried that he will charge you $200.00 an hour and screw you in the end like the lawyers will?
 
 
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