LostInTheWoods
Platinum Member
BINGO! We have a winner!:thumbsup:
How to kill yourself without knowing
- Thread starter nebraskasparks
- Start date
BINGO! We have a winner!:thumbsup:
/pine
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 15,059
sure nuff (could not agree more)...comparing athletics to operator reaction time is like comparing "apples to oranges" 
patrick_g
Elite Member
Hi guys, after some initial apples to oranges discussion errors this became an interesting topic.
The slower figure (5 sec) is not only appropriate for something complicated as a modern war bird or the space shuttle. It isn't the overall complexity of the machine that is the driving factor it is the complexity of the analysis.
Pre-decided actions like dumping the clutch when the Christmas tree goes green or shoving the FEL joystick to drop the bucket go very quickly. I try to always have my hand on the FEL joystick when the tractor is in motion with a load in the bucket and am ready to drop the load in an instant (way less than 5 sec.)
Newby operators not aware of that defensive operating posture and not expecting to tip over sideways on level ground at slow speeds when first confronted with an imminent sideways roll over (due to a change in geometry when turning the steering hard to lock with a heavily loaded bucket are going to be lucky to figure out what to do and do it successfully in time to keep 4 wheels on the ground or even 3 in many instances.
I've seen new catamaran "drivers" roll over due to centrifugal force on their high CG when tacking quickly or otherwise maneuvering sharply especially when they have been taught to head into the wind to take the pressure off the sails to avoid a turnover and the very act of more turning does them in. It can be like watching the Ripple Train Wreck in slow motion. Lots of time to think about it but if you don't recognize the situation and have to analyze it, well time flies when your having fun (or having to think.)
Subjective time (as accounted for by the person involved in the SITUATION) can be significantly distorted.
Oh, and regarding the aeronautical sourced information that evoked impassioned disbelievers... Get over it, like the laws of physics your opinion not withstanding the aero dude told it like it is. Like gravity, it just is and can't be changed.
PS I am a pilot (ex USAF) and I was an instructor on an instrument trainer (simulated a jet aircraft) for over 3 years and I can attest to what happens when you catch someone (rated pilots with plenty of hours) off guard with no immediately retrievable preplanned RIGHT ACTION at their disposal. They (in the best possible outcome) have to ANALYZE the situation before reacting. Luckily it only took my aircraft a few seconds to recover from becoming a smoking hole in the ground, pull it self back up to ground level and be ready to go again good as new. Not the case in the world of real A/C, tractors, etc.
Wanna see slow reactions... Watch someone with a cell phone shoved in their ear while driving and their phone contact asks something that requires serious conscious thought. They just "zone out" as far as driving is concerned and may wander across lanes or ... Similarly watch someone singing along with their iTunes while tractoring and some unanticipated fast reaction is required. First their brain has to "switch contexts" and then they have to handle the situation. Some folks are not good at it and it is like they are waking up in a new world.
Pat
The slower figure (5 sec) is not only appropriate for something complicated as a modern war bird or the space shuttle. It isn't the overall complexity of the machine that is the driving factor it is the complexity of the analysis.
Pre-decided actions like dumping the clutch when the Christmas tree goes green or shoving the FEL joystick to drop the bucket go very quickly. I try to always have my hand on the FEL joystick when the tractor is in motion with a load in the bucket and am ready to drop the load in an instant (way less than 5 sec.)
Newby operators not aware of that defensive operating posture and not expecting to tip over sideways on level ground at slow speeds when first confronted with an imminent sideways roll over (due to a change in geometry when turning the steering hard to lock with a heavily loaded bucket are going to be lucky to figure out what to do and do it successfully in time to keep 4 wheels on the ground or even 3 in many instances.
I've seen new catamaran "drivers" roll over due to centrifugal force on their high CG when tacking quickly or otherwise maneuvering sharply especially when they have been taught to head into the wind to take the pressure off the sails to avoid a turnover and the very act of more turning does them in. It can be like watching the Ripple Train Wreck in slow motion. Lots of time to think about it but if you don't recognize the situation and have to analyze it, well time flies when your having fun (or having to think.)
Subjective time (as accounted for by the person involved in the SITUATION) can be significantly distorted.
Oh, and regarding the aeronautical sourced information that evoked impassioned disbelievers... Get over it, like the laws of physics your opinion not withstanding the aero dude told it like it is. Like gravity, it just is and can't be changed.
PS I am a pilot (ex USAF) and I was an instructor on an instrument trainer (simulated a jet aircraft) for over 3 years and I can attest to what happens when you catch someone (rated pilots with plenty of hours) off guard with no immediately retrievable preplanned RIGHT ACTION at their disposal. They (in the best possible outcome) have to ANALYZE the situation before reacting. Luckily it only took my aircraft a few seconds to recover from becoming a smoking hole in the ground, pull it self back up to ground level and be ready to go again good as new. Not the case in the world of real A/C, tractors, etc.
Wanna see slow reactions... Watch someone with a cell phone shoved in their ear while driving and their phone contact asks something that requires serious conscious thought. They just "zone out" as far as driving is concerned and may wander across lanes or ... Similarly watch someone singing along with their iTunes while tractoring and some unanticipated fast reaction is required. First their brain has to "switch contexts" and then they have to handle the situation. Some folks are not good at it and it is like they are waking up in a new world.
Pat
doall
Platinum Member
sure nuff (could not agree more)...comparing athletics to operator reaction time is like comparing "apples to oranges"
that was the whole point.
patrick_g
Elite Member
/P
What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, RIGHT???
If 5 sec is so stupidly indefensible that you won't accept it as provided with terrific credentials on the part of the provider then please provide your (applicable) credentials and or quote your informed sources that back up your contention.
Patrick
texasjohn
Super Member
+1 for what Patrick_g said. I studied human factors once...I believe he's lived it.
I'm always amazed and impressed by the total scope and experience of TBN contributors.:thumbsup:
Any moment now somebody is going to give an actual account of what happens when attacked by wild mountain gorillas:laughing:
I'm always amazed and impressed by the total scope and experience of TBN contributors.:thumbsup:
Any moment now somebody is going to give an actual account of what happens when attacked by wild mountain gorillas:laughing:
doall
Platinum Member
Well they might not have been true Mountain gorilla's,but back in 89...:laughing::laughing::laughing:
texasjohn
Super Member
Well, doall, should I read something into your twice repeated series of three items : ... and :laughing::laughing::laughing: ?
I refer to the diary that Meryl Streep kept of her paramours/activities in Mamma Mia :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
I refer to the diary that Meryl Streep kept of her paramours/activities in Mamma Mia :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
k0ua
Epic Contributor
+1 on that, I KNOW that is a fact. because it has happened to me. It is not just simply talking on a cellphone, it is the content of the conversation. When talking to the wife, telling her your are on the way home, no problem, but when you get a business call, and someone ask me an engineering question about a system, and I have to think about it, I now, advise them I will call them back when I get to the office or tommorow, I know I cannot drive safely,and solve engineering problems over a stupid cell phone. and Handfree has no effect one way or another, And I bet a lot of other people have this same problem
James K0UA
patrick_g
Elite Member
Thanks. Vote early, vote often!
If a guy is fully qualified to write a Wikipedia article on a topic...
I'm always amazed by the total RANGE of scope and experience of TBN contributors.
Patrick