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  1. #1
    Silver Member
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    Jun 2010
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    238
    Location
    Northern Illiniois
    Tractor
    2010 Kubota L5740 HST and 2016 Simplicity Prestige

    Default How to kill yourself without knowing

    I used to buy into the legal departments argument that due to too many factors that the manufacturers can't do this or that. We studied those back in our basic Mech Ag classes in the 70's and we were also punching cards for computers. That was true up to about the 1990's but that isn't true today.

    What a computer can calculate today with sensors on the front and back of hydraulic lifts is a lot. Tilt angles and weight loads and implement heights are simply fed into a CHEAP computer and Calculations that are simply burned into memory make split calculations and results come in milliseconds...faster than you or I can make a decision. An input to a kill switch would save lots of Dads and Sons.These computers are cheap today...very cheap. This is being done on all sorts of equipment today. Only the audience can demand that it be changed.

    Turning uphill or downhill on a slope is bad news for any kind of equipment and that's what all your movies on tractor safety show. Very basic.

    Moving a FEL or three point with a heavy load on a slope is also an invitation for Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein to sit in your bucket and lecture you about moving heavy loads with your FEL. For example...

    If you parked your tractor pointed downhill and stepped back and imagined a stick hanging from your fingers running through the center of your tractor that was plumb/exactly perpendicular with level ground...this will give you the angle that the *** end of your tractor would be OFF THE GROUND if it was on level ground. Visualize how many FEET this off the ground if it were on level ground...then move your FEL or three point. You will find that you only have to move your FEL a few inches or less than a foot without any kind of load to move the FEL where it's max weight on the chart is. Put a load on it and you become a physics major within milliseconds. The kubota I just bought has these charts with the FEL.
    If you're so inclined to be extremely stupid and work your tractor sideways or parallel to the hill while moving your attachments...step back, park your tractor...imagine this stick hanging from your fingers running through the center of your tractor and see how many inches or feet the upwheel tires would be off the ground if you were on level ground. It only takes a few moments to do and will save your keyster and pride.

    Everyone is very cautious when they have a load in the FEL and they start putting any kind of height on it but according to the charts provided on various pieces of equipment...the moment arm or force really shoots up when you first lift or lower your fel when your bucket is within the first few feet of the ground. The weight that is exerted onto the arms moves closer to the tractor body and center of gravity the higher it goes so long as it is on level ground. Moving or changing the angle or slope of the ground just a few degrees off moves the moment arm away from the tractor a huge amount depending on the weight in your FEL or three point and that's where I saw the pearly gates for a millisecond operating an old ford. I thought I was moving the bucket slowly but I have never seen a machine want to leap off the ground so fast in my life.

    It takes the average human being 5 seconds to see, process (think) and then react. I saw this time and time again as an accident investigator. We are terribly human and very few human beings can process information faster than this. Moral of the story...it's over before you can react.

    I saw an old farmer take his framing square and eyeball a hill once. He then showed me in the manual where they had highly recommended the max slope the machine should be operated on.

    I will continue to dig for the information that we can put into some common English but even moving the FEL or three point hitch at what we think is a slow rate means absolutely nothing when the weight/moment arm exceeds the weight of your tractor and they snap faster than you can say...ahhh...
    Last edited by nebraskasparks; 09-23-2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason: better visualization

  2. #2
    Elite Member rekees4300's Avatar
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    Feb 2010
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    4,195
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    Indiana
    Tractor
    JD 4300, JD X500

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    My friend you are preaching to the choir. I've posted many times about the dangers of FEL/slopes but many here just scoff. As they say "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

  3. #3
    Super Member /pine's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    ...It takes the average human being 5 seconds to see, process (think) and then react....
    just curious...
    I seriously doubt there is any scientific data to support this...but I would like to see it if it exists...

    ...personally (my own observations) I think (since there is no such thing as "average humans") a typical reaction time is between one half second and one and a half seconds...
    Slash Pine
    blunt and succinct yet sincere...in the immortal words of Popeye..."I yam what I yam"

  4. #4
    Platinum Member LostInTheWoods's Avatar
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    Jun 2009
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    851
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2660

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    [QUOTE=/pine;2094446]just curious...
    I seriously doubt there is any scientific data to support this...but I would like to see it if it exists...[QUOTE]

    The OP's original post makes some good points, but I'd have to agree 5 seconds seems a bit long on human reaction time. Stoplights would be a whole lot more interesting if it took the average Joe 5 seconds to make a decision.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them"
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.
    - Thomas Edison

  5. #5
    Elite Member Duffster's Avatar
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    Wisconsin

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by /pine View Post
    just curious...
    I seriously doubt there is any scientific data to support this...but I would like to see it if it exists...

    ...personally (my own observations) I think (since there is no such thing as "average humans") a typical reaction time is between one half second and one and a half seconds...
    Agreed. 5 seconds is a long time.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." George Patton

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
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    Guernsey Co. Ohio
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    Ford 3000, JD 2550

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by /pine View Post
    just curious...
    I seriously doubt there is any scientific data to support this...but I would like to see it if it exists...
    There is data, but it won't support his numbers. He's making them up I suspect. The typically accepted number is right around 1/2 second. That's how they set the timing for drag racing lights.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member
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    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    I need one of those computers very badly. The reason I'm at home is that i fell on my way to the bus stop this morning. Stepped into a rut in the street, twisted my ankle, flopped on the ground, skinned my knee to the bone, and ruined a pair of pants. And all before 7 AM.

    Add to that a Bubble wrap suit.

  8. #8
    Gold Member EarPlug's Avatar
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    Oct 2001
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    464
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    Colorado
    Tractor
    MF 1635

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    Article on "Driver Reaction Time" By Marc Green PhD stating that 1.5 seconds is "average"

  9. #9
    Super Star Member brin's Avatar
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    Georgia - Mt. Vernon by The Store just 5 miles east and right by the big oak tree then to the creek.

    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    I agree 5 seconds seems way too long...I would have been dead or seriously hurt many years ago if it took me 5 seconds to react..LOL...Like when I was about 12 yrs. old and my foot slipped off the clutch on a 9N Ford tractor...Front end shot straight up and I shoved my foot down on the clutch in a nano second...otherwise it would have been a very bad day for me ...and there have been several other events over the years that had it taken me all of 5 seconds I would have been at least 3 seconds too late...I go with 2 seconds top unless someone has Old timers..LOL
    Bob

    WORRYING does not take away tomorrow's TROUBLES, it takes away today's PEACE.


    NH - TC-29 , FEL, Bush hog, Bush hog brand finishing mower, Post hole digger, 6' Back blade, sub-soiler, Pallet forks, 20KW PTO Generator , 21 hp Murray Mower
    JD -3020 with FEL and a 16 HP. K-Grow Lawn Tractor (bought from K Mart 1994) and runs great !
    Clark 130 EN Mig Welder

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How to kill yourself without knowing

    I'll the OP respond himself, but when I read it, I saw, the "think" part and know that unless you operate or train on what to do (more than just reacting), it might take a moment or two to realize what to do, it may not be intuitive for all of us. Whether that thinking takes more than a second or not, I don't know the answer.

    The stoplight reaction time or drag racing is a good example. We know what to do when the light turns red for us to stop or we get the green to go, but do we know what to do always when we are operating our tractor and something goes wrong. I suspect if we did, many accidents would not happen.
    2007 Kubota L3130, LA723 FEL
    Land Pride FDR1672 rear finish mower, Frontier RB1172, Koyker KB60 BH
    Pallet forks, Golf cart canopy bolted to ROPS, 9" & 12" PHD
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