Prosecute the parents?

[patrickg]

In the Jul/Aug '01 issue of "Farm Journal" There is an article discussing the death of a 3 yr old boy who was killed while riding with his 5 yr old brother down a state highway in the bucket of a skid steer loader being operated by his father. The 3yr old bounced out and his head was driven over by the father. Due to an ongoing series of "child endangerments" in agricultural settings the district attourney was urged to bring charges against the father/operator. The father was charged with reckless endangerment and endangering the welfare of a child. The prosecuter said that the loss was a severe punishment and that he would recommend against jail time, instead he would move for safety training and community service.

There is a fine line but it seems that prosecution hinges on whether the parents knew or should have known their actions are dangerous. In this case the equipment had a warning sticker saying "No Riders". Accident or criminal negligence? If the warning sign were not there in plain sight then you would have to decide if the operator "knew" better or if the danger was unknown and therefore trully an accident. Letting a child talk on the phone shouldn't be criminalized when a child is killed by lightning via the phone I F there was no warning of an approaching storm or if it could be shown that the parent was truly ignorant of the risk.

Lucky for the father that I am not in a position to impose his sentence. I would parade him around the state with before and after pictures of his son. Cute kid with smile (before) gruesome gory bloody mess (after) and have him speak to various groups about child safety. I would include agricultural venues as well. Children are a SERIOUS responsibility. Young children can't look after themselves and willingly and joyfully go to their deaths because it looks like fun.

In this one county, Perry County in PA, in 18 months there were 3 farm related deaths of small children. Someone is not paying attention. Even if this is an anomaly, when multiplied across the country would be a tremendous loss of life of innocents unable to see to their own welfare. I don't have kids (but I was one once) and I'm incensed at this report.

Patrick

 

[TerryinMD]

My kids always ask if they can ride in the FEL. I give them the "what planet were you born on" look and just say no. After carrying concrete blocks, wood, etc., and seeing it bounce around, I just couldn't imagine having one of them ride in it. That's why were the parents!!!

I couldn't image if something like that ever happened. Probably turn out to be a homeless drunk......

 

[Anonymous Poster]

With the facts as you provided, I don’t believe there was any criminal intent…

I cherish my girls, as I ‘m sure most all parents do with their children… I believe this father will be in his own prison the rest of his life… What started out to make his little boy’s happy with an “innocent and harmless” ride in the bucket turned tragic in a microsecond.

They put erasers on pencils to fix mistakes… but all the erasers in the world won’t fix this one… I believe the DA made a wise decision not to prosecute and for the alternative safety training I praise…

I pray for the boy’s father & family…

 

[Knight9]

Amen.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I don't know what the DA could do to this guy that would be any worse than what he is doing to himself.

Mistakes can be merciless teachers. Some mistakes are small and some are not so small. It never ceases to amaze me how fast things can go from a beautiful day to something going horribly wrong. I still can not believe that anyone actually lives long enough to die of old age. I've made plenty of mistakes but luckily I haven't taken myself out of the gene pool just yet...

 

[patrickg]

JohnMiller said: With the facts as you provided, I don’t believe there was any criminal intent…

Right, no criminal intent, it wasn't premeditated murder. It however was reckless endangerment. My goodness running down the state highway with kids in a bucket?????? What about the sticker, no riders? What about child safety restraint and seatbelt laws????


JohnMiller said: I believe this
father will be in his own prison the rest of his life… What started out to make his little
boy’s happy with an “innocent and harmless” ride in the bucket turned tragic in a
microsecond.

Agreed. Everyone quoted in the story agreed. Doesn't change the fact that it was gross negligence and can't be excused due to parents grief. Precisely because you can't "take it back" is why it should be prosecuted.

I could go with “innocent and harmless” a bit easier if this accident happened at reduced speed in their yard or driveway but a state highway???? How could he have dodged another vehicle that could have endangered them??

Sorry to disagree John. The item in the magazine stated that the prosecuter would prosecute but would not recommend incarceration but instead community service and safety training. To do anything less sends the wrong message. Sorry doesn't cut it. Did you do something obviously dangerous (sign prohibited riders) to someone in your charge who couldn't fend for themselves (a sacred trust was broken).

Society should demand prosecution. Incarceration, not necessarily, it depends, that is as far as I can waffle on this.

Patrick

 

[Bird]

Whew, you're tough, Patrick./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Let's see . . ., if I remember right, the purpose of prosecution and punishment is supposed to be rehabilitation of the "criminal"; i.e., prevent him from doing it again. How likely is it that this father will do something like this again? Of course, I realize that as a practical matter, we also punish people as an example to others, and for revenge. I certainly agree he did something stupid, reckless, never should have happened, etc., and who among us has not; most of us were just lucky and got away with it. The publicity surrounding this incident should discourage others from doing the same, or at least I would think so. So, then what good can come of prosecuting the father, spending tax dollars to do so, etc.?

Bird

 

[ejb]

Stickers on the side of a tractor, are not laws. Not obeying a sticker is not the same as not obeying the law. Give the guy a break.

Since you don't have kids of your own, there is no possible way you can know what this man is going thru. Putting him in jail would do absolutely no good, and would cause the other child(ren) to loose a parent.

Besides, a state highway probably makes it sound a lot worse than it was. I live on a "state highway". I have no choice to cut across it at times, and yes, sometimes with a child on my lap. I very seriously doubt this guy was commuting 50 miles away at 65mph to some distant location on this "state highway".

Defintely no a smart thing to do, and now both he and his child have paid the price. Accidents happen.




<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ejb on 09/06/01 03:44 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Mike_Dumond]

Prosecute...YES. Incarcerate...NO. As John said, there was no criminal intent. If you think about it, he was doing something that doesn't happen too often. He was spending time with his kids. True, he did something very foolish, stupid even. But his intent was to enjoy his children, not to hurt them. How many people here, can honestly say they haven't done anything foolish or stupid in their lives that could have resulted in injury to someone else.

I can see the hands going up now. Someone saying, not me, I wouldn't do that. Unfortunately, if we're being honest, I don't think anyone can say that. The extent of the injury might be different, but the principal remains the same. Ever go hunting with someone? Do you walk around with an unloaded weapon? Doesn't make sense to go hunting with the ammo in your pocket, we just won't chamber a round and we'll keep the safety on.

How about working around the house? Have a friend over, nice Saturday afternoon, have a few beers. Did you supply everyone with a hard hat, safety goggles, make sure they knew how to use the power tools?

I could go on with this list, make it so long that they'd have to make it into a movie. And it would only include stupid, foolish mistakes that no one seems to remember. Do we lock you up, because your friend took 3 days to wake up after you accidently dropped a hammer on his head? Or because your buddy has only one eye left after a chip from the power saw entered his unprotected eye?

And if we lock you up, then how are you going to be able to appologize to your family for accidently shooting your son, because you tripped on a branch.

Now, some of you are going "yea, right". Well, YEA,RIGHT. If you look at my profile, you'll see that I'm a paramedic. Been doing this for 14 years. And I've seen stupid, foolish actions hurt and kill friends and family. I've picked up the little kids that were run over by accident. Do you look under your car when you leave?

I've cried my share of tears over foolish stupid, accidents. I've been angry with stupid, foolish people. Would locking them up help with the healing process? You need to remember, they may be the perpetrator of the incident, but they are also a victim.

Damn, I didn't want to be long winded, sorry. Let's not make ourselves holier than thou. We've all been there, just some of us were 'lucky'.

Keep the greasy side down.
Mike

 

[Anonymous Poster]

All right Patrick, it looks as if I am going to have to take you on. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
I realize and freely admit that this fellow in the bobcat did not use the best judgment. However, you cannot legislate common sense. Things don't always work out like we had hoped for. It looks to me like this guy did not do something that was incredibly stupid. Although we both agree that he did do something that neither one of us would have done. I choose to believe that this guy just had a lapse in judgment and will have to pay a hefty price for it for the rest of his life. I know that many things that I do are inherently dangerous but There By The Grace of God Go I. An example is cutting firewood. Very dangerous. I have made mistakes. I still have ten fingers and ten toes. And luck has as much to do with it as skill does. We both live in the country and therefore get involved in many more dangerous things than many city dwellers. Mowing the lawn is more dangerous for us because we do it on a tractor. I cringe whenever my dog comes running up to the mower because I have heard of too many animal accidents having to do with them. I'm not even counting rollovers. We will not even get into how dangerous sickle bar mowers are. My point is that it is a wonder that anyone can live a long life without being killed by accident. And that is just exactly what this was. An accident. I realize that this guy is not without blame. I also realize that I have done things that were not too smart but I just didn't know it at the time. Mostly I feel sorry for this guy because I know that it could have been me. Not with the exact same circumstances mind you, but it could have been any one of us. Under the right circumstances it could have even been you. I am not trying to point a finger at you but I am just saying that I have heard of a lot of things that could have been very very bad but somebody got lucky. I had a cousin get run over by a tractor when he was 5. He got squished between the duals and was completely OK. His dad never even saw him. I also had a friend get shot while he was out hunting. He is OK today also. I also know some stories where things did not turn out so good. I am thankful for what I have because it can be taken away from you in an instant, and you never even saw it coming. And I don't think that this guy saw it coming. And one of us might not see it coming either.