Help Understanding Tractor HP and Prices

I'm a n00b when it comes to tractors. I'm confused as to why tractors are so expensive for the amount of horsepower you get.

For example, you can buy a 20+ horsepower riding lawn mower for $1500 or so. A 20+ HP utility tractor with mowing deck is going to cost you about $15K - 10x!

I realize the tractor is built much more ruggedly, has a PTO, diesel engine, larger wheels, and other features - but 10x the price for the same horsepower seems very expensive to me! Why so expensive?

One related question I have is - are the HP ratings really accurate? Is a 25 HP utility tractor really no more powerful than a 25HP riding lawn mower?

Well, I have two guesses.

1- the lawnmower type horsepower are wrong and that's why the new class action suit is in action.

2- The horses used to figure out lawnmower type tractors are Shetland ponies and well, you get what you get.

adamjthompson86 said:

One related question I have is - are the HP ratings really accurate? Is a 25 HP utility tractor really no more powerful than a 25HP riding lawn mower?

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Gas engine HP ratings can be very much exaggerated for marketing purposes. The engine may be able to make the advertised HP, but engine longevity at the advertised rating may be very short.
Tractor engines may be rated more realistically, but even then the tractor's engine HP is gross (no loads, which means no transmission, drive shafts, axles, etc.). Engines being rated for gross HP may have required accessories such as fans, waterpumps and perhaps an alternator/generator. PTO HP ratings are a more realistic measure of what the tractor can do. On large tractors, the rating may be drawbar HP (pulling power).
Sticking with Compact tractors (for sake of discussion),to get the torque transmitted to the wheels and implements requires gearing that just isn't cheap to produce, especially considering the relatively small numbers. To contain the gearing requires robust castings for long term durability. Castings are cheap compared to forgings and machined components, but that doesn't mean they're cheap in price.
Then there is the machining required to allow the castings to perform as gear carriers or engines...substantial costs.
And, a Compact Tractor needs weight to put this power to the ground and some rather expensive tires to move that power. A typical Compact Tractor with no FEL weighs in the neighborhood of 2000-2500 lbs. Thats easily 3 to 4 times the weight of a lawn tractor.
All of these higher grade components add to the longevity of the compact tractor which, with required maintenance, will last thousands of hours before overhaul. It's unlikely you'll see those hours with a lawn tractor...and after a number of hours, that lawn tractor is most likely a throwaway (no worth rebuilding).

If you put a chain between a 20 HP Compact Tractor and a 20 HP lawn tractor, then did a pulling contest, the compact tractor would pull that lawn tractor easily.

So, if you need to cut your lawn, buy a lawn tractor for $1500. If you need to do more serious work, be prepared to spend 10 times that for a compact tractor.

Welcome<

I have a 31hp Kawasaki Badboy Zero Turn Radius lawn mower. That being said: a 30 HP New Holland TC 30 for example would put it to shame completely for any and all purposes that your mind could conceive or your imagination could dream. There is no comparison when speaking to HP on mowers vs tractors. I do not know what causes this extreme difference but my guess is the ratio of torque; transmission; tire size and weight of the tractor vs the mower. The price difference is well deserved and earned on every hour used in the field.

Hope this helps.

Adam

Tractors are an end to a mean. If you have to run certain implements the tractor has to be sized to run these implements. Dollar per horsepower is determined by what you need the tractor to do.

No comparison. A 25 hp Kubota is worth 20X a 25hp MTD rider. They both say 25 hp but they are different kinds of horses. The Kubota are Clydesdales and the MTD are the plastic horses you get at Toys R US...

I have a Kubota BX 2230 and am amazed at what the 22 hp will do. My biggest limitation often is traction.

adamjthompson86 said:

I'm a n00b when it comes to tractors. I'm confused as to why tractors are so expensive for the amount of horsepower you get.

For example, you can buy a 20+ horsepower riding lawn mower for $1500 or so. A 20+ HP utility tractor with mowing deck is going to cost you about $15K - 10x!

I realize the tractor is built much more ruggedly, has a PTO, diesel engine, larger wheels, and other features - but 10x the price for the same horsepower seems very expensive to me! Why so expensive?

One related question I have is - are the HP ratings really accurate? Is a 25 HP utility tractor really no more powerful than a 25HP riding lawn mower?

Click to expand...

Hi Adam,

That is a good question that I'm sure is shared by many looking at riding mowers and tractors. We could go into detail, as some have already mentioned, about torque throughout a broad rpm range, operating life at rated output, robustness of trannies, robustness of chassis, ease of operating (power steering). However you will get the quickest and most complete answer by driving a $1500 rider mower and than a $15k tractor. There is absolutely nothing comparable beyond they both have 4 wheels and a can mow the lawn.

The $1500 rider can last for several years and perhaps even a few hundred hours if it is only used to cut grass on flat, smooth turf. Have to go up and down a steep slope? The grapefruit sized tranny on the rider will be cooked after the second year. It will leak by internally and not go up the hill when it gets hot. Same thing will happen if you want to pull a cart loaded with soil. The machine is challenged to handle anything more than a operator and a grass catcher in terms of weight.

The decision comes down to if you want a rider to use just for mowing a smooth, flat fairly small lawn and nothing else, the $1500 rider could very well last quite a while, 5, 7 or more years. Anything more demanding and the machine will either simply not do it or will fail in short order.

So you have to match a machine to your tasks, conditions, life span expectations, comfort expectations and budget (short term and long term).

I have nothing against the $1500 big box store ride on's. They have their place and can provide a very good solution to the right situation. The buyer needs to make sure their personal situation matches that machine.

After all that, stop by your local tractor dealer and take a test drive. I'm sure the difference will be clear. Only you can decide if the difference is "worth it".

Oh, and the Hp ratings on ride on mowers are largely irrelevant. 15 years ago I bought a 2 cyl ride on rated at 16 hp. Now comparable machines are rated over 20hp. 30 years ago the comparable (much better built actually) machines were rated at 12hp. Meaningless advertising. Any ride on will have enough power to mow with the deck it comes with.

Torque, torque, torque. Compare the engine torque numbers and you'll see what the difference is.

In most modern terms yes.

Gas tractor engines though, can match diesel tractor power and torque curves. However... Gas tractor engines tend to be bigger, and use more fuel. My old Farmall made a little more hp and torque than my old Kubota(20hp vs 19hp). But, the Farmall was almost twice the cubic inches.

In most cases, a lawn tractor makes peak hp like an old 2-stroke dirtbike; in a very narrow rpm band. Fine for mowing a lawn, but not much use for anything else.

RoyJackson said:

Gas engine HP ratings can be very much exaggerated for marketing purposes. The engine may be able to make the advertised HP, but engine longevity at the advertised rating may be very short.
Tractor engines may be rated more realistically, but even then the tractor's engine HP is gross (no loads, which means no transmission, drive shafts, axles, etc.).

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roamerr said:

The Kubota are Clydesdales and the MTD are the plastic horses you get at Toys R US...

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Cute comparison, LOL.

To the OP: good question.

Take a riding mower and cut 5-10 acres and I don't think it will last very long. Do the same with a compact utility tractor, and it will be going strong 20 years later. Plus, if you need to do other work, hauling firewood, tilling a garden, etc., there is no comparison.

Ken

roamerr said:

1*The Kubota are Clydesdales and the MTD are the plastic horses you get at Toys R US...
I have a Kubota BX 2230 and am amazed at what the 22 hp will do.
2*My biggest limitation often is traction.

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Ken45101 said:

1*Cute comparison, LOL.

To the OP: good question.
Take a riding mower and cut 5-10 acres and I don't think it will last very long. Do the same with a compact utility tractor, and it will be going strong 20 years later. Plus, if you need to do other work, hauling firewood, tilling a garden, etc., there is no comparison.

Ken

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2*Traction on an over powered riding mower with the roller skate sized wheels is what i call poor traction .

The riding mowers aren't built sturdy enough to handle the high horse power.
The engines will tear them up.

This is not the case with a real tractor.

If you are trying to justify the cost of a compact tractor, don't bother, the truth is you might be able to keep buying $1500 lawn mowers and stay ahead money wise.

If you want to own a machine that will last many years, do more than mow your yard, then look at CUTS of SCUTS. I have about 3 acres, which really doesn't sound like much land, but when you throw in some trees, hills, and rough ground from moles, it just tears up a regular riding mower. My first one was pretty inexpensive, maybe $1200, and lasted 3 or 4 years. My next one was a Scotts, made by John Deere, and it was much better, cost maybe $3500. The problem with it was traction, I had a lot of problems on my hills.

I bought a BX2350, 60" mower, and front end loader. You get 4 wheel drive, a bigger deck, power steering, a diesel engine, water cooled, a front end loader, 3 point hitch. Like others have said, a 25hp diesel makes more power than a 25hp gas engine. That is an entire discussion in its self. If you have snow removal, driveway maintance, cut wood, do a lot of landscaping, move dirt, run a chipper, run a generator, then look at tractors. The amount of 3 point implements is only limited by your bank account.

I feel like I wasted my money on my first two mowers, after 4 years, I sold the first one for $75, the deck was shot and the steering was shot. The second one I sold for $750 after about 5 years. I'm guessing I could get about 75% of the value of my Kubota of what I paid for it. I should have bought one when I first moved to the country.

adamjthompson86 said:

I'm a n00b when it comes to tractors. I'm confused as to why tractors are so expensive for the amount of horsepower you get.

For example, you can buy a 20+ horsepower riding lawn mower for $1500 or so. A 20+ HP utility tractor with mowing deck is going to cost you about $15K - 10x!

I realize the tractor is built much more ruggedly, has a PTO, diesel engine, larger wheels, and other features - but 10x the price for the same horsepower seems very expensive to me! Why so expensive?

One related question I have is - are the HP ratings really accurate? Is a 25 HP utility tractor really no more powerful than a 25HP riding lawn mower?

Click to expand...

You're paying for lots of extra things- a mechanical fuel injected liquid cooled 3 or 4 cylinder diesel is much more expensive to maufacture than an air cooled carbureted V-twin. More torque; while that lawn tractor may make similar hp torque wise there's no comparision- there's lots more of it and it's down low where you need it. To handle that torque you need a far more capable transmission, one with two or three ranges to handle varied tasks and a PTO to drive implements. That costs money- a lot more than a v-belt driven implement running off a pulley on a lawn tractor does. Three point hitch- a rarity on a lawn garden tractor. Four wheel drive- again a rarity on lawn and garden tractors; power does you no good unless you can get it to the ground. Hydraulics- lower end lawn and garden tractors have none (lifting a 5' rotary cutter manually wouldn't be much fun ) and while the high end ones do you'll quickly find one you start adding all these features the price quickly approaches that of a CUT. I suspect too that the manufacturing volumes on CUT's is nowhere near that of lawn and garden tractors- lower volumes will drive up unit prices. You're paying for capability- a CUT can do jobs a lawn and garden tractor owner can only dream of.

Thank you very much for all of your replies. Most of you have confirmed my suspicion - comparing utility tractor horsepower to HP on a riding lawn mower, for example, doesn't work. That leads me to a follow-up question, which I have posted in this thread:

Rules Of Thumb For Tractor Size, etc? - TractorByNet.com

adamjthompson86 said:

Thank you very much for all of your replies. Most of you have confirmed my suspicion - comparing utility tractor horsepower to HP on a riding lawn mower, for example, doesn't work. That leads me to a follow-up question, which I have posted in this thread:

Rules Of Thumb For Tractor Size, etc? - TractorByNet.com

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Adam,

if you are thinking of buying one of these?..What is your intended purpose? Moving to a new thread can't help you in that respect...We really need that answer.

I just finished browsing this thread when a commercial came on TV for a class action lawsuit claiming that HP had been over stated for gas lawnmowers. The commercial was complete with pictures of yellow and white mowers, green and yellow mowers, and several others. Just thought it was interesting.

jc21 said:

You're paying for lots of extra things- a mechanical fuel injected liquid cooled 3 or 4 cylinder diesel is much more expensive to maufacture than an air cooled carbureted V-twin. More torque; while that lawn tractor may make similar hp torque wise there's no comparision- there's lots more of it and it's down low where you need it. To handle that torque you need a far more capable transmission, one with two or three ranges to handle varied tasks and a PTO to drive implements. That costs money- a lot more than a v-belt driven implement running off a pulley on a lawn tractor does. Three point hitch- a rarity on a lawn garden tractor. Four wheel drive- again a rarity on lawn and garden tractors; power does you no good unless you can get it to the ground. Hydraulics- lower end lawn and garden tractors have none (lifting a 5' rotary cutter manually wouldn't be much fun ) and while the high end ones do you'll quickly find one you start adding all these features the price quickly approaches that of a CUT. I suspect too that the manufacturing volumes on CUT's is nowhere near that of lawn and garden tractors- lower volumes will drive up unit prices. You're paying for capability- a CUT can do jobs a lawn and garden tractor owner can only dream of.

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A sub compact or compact is 20 times as much tractor as a lawn or garden tractor but only cost 10 times as much.

It's like comparing a sports car with a pickup. They are both vehicles which will transport you to where you want to go. The sports car has a lot of horsepower and handles nicely, but put a half a ton of bricks in the trunk and see what happens!

adamjthompson86 said:

I'm a n00b when it comes to tractors. I'm confused as to why tractors are so expensive for the amount of horsepower you get.

For example, you can buy a 20+ horsepower riding lawn mower for $1500 or so. A 20+ HP utility tractor with mowing deck is going to cost you about $15K - 10x!

I realize the tractor is built much more ruggedly, has a PTO, diesel engine, larger wheels, and other features - but 10x the price for the same horsepower seems very expensive to me! Why so expensive?

One related question I have is - are the HP ratings really accurate? Is a 25 HP utility tractor really no more powerful than a 25HP riding lawn mower?

Click to expand...

Well, first off, Horse Power is Horse Power. If two engines are rated (assuming a standardized test) at 25 Horse Power, then both will produce 25 Horse Power, no ifs, ands or buts. So, a 25HP lawn mower engine shaft has the same HP as a 25 HP PTO shaft on a tractor.... until you put a load on it. As the load increases, the lawn mower engine will not be able to keep the shaft producing 25HP as long as the tractor will be able to keep the PTO shaft producing 25HP. That's due to the size of the pistons and length of the connecting rods in the engines driving the shafts. The longer lengths of the connecting rods in the tractor engine are just like levers.... the longer the lever, the more torque you can apply to the load. Also, the pistons are larger and heavier so there is more force behind the lever. That gives the tractor engine the better ability to keep the shaft spinning at the same RPM as the load increases.

Think of Bruce Lee as HP and Hulk Hogan as torque. You don't want either one of them to hit you. But you'd rather have Bruce Lee accidentally step on your toe.