Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

jimgerken · Mar 7, 2011

DAY said:
And now another question: Are all R4 tire patterns the same? I can't believe that the mfrs haven't come up with a better pattern that what you started grooving. Do they not consider the differing ground conditions (mud, snow, pavement) when they design a tread? For our cars we have the option of selecting "All Weather" tires.

Mine are different than most. Here is a pic. I am thinking about grooving them, but their curvy look makes me wonder what the best grooving technique might be. Ideas?

MikePA · Mar 7, 2011

jimgerken said:
Mine are different than most. Here is a pic. I am thinking about grooving them, but their curvy look makes me wonder what the best grooving technique might be. Ideas?

I'd use the groove in the center, from the inside to the outside of the lug, that others have shown. That's what I plan on doing once the tool arrives.

Deadman · Mar 7, 2011

I'd try to center the groove in your curved lug. It will look factory, and it will perform just as well as the other Grooved R4's.
With your lugs being angled, it will offer side traction too, but will add a TON of forward traction. :thumbsup:

teg · Mar 7, 2011

jimgerken said:
Mine are different than most. Here is a pic. I am thinking about grooving them, but their curvy look makes me wonder what the best grooving technique might be. Ideas?

Like these? This is why I'm afraid to groove mine... hand is not too steady.

DarrylH20 · Mar 7, 2011

jimgerken said:
Mine are different than most. Here is a pic. I am thinking about grooving them, but their curvy look makes me wonder what the best grooving technique might be. Ideas?

I like the look of them:thumbsup: I don't think I would touch them.

Bigturk · Mar 7, 2011

Hi guys, I am also looking for more traction on snow. Any idea who makes/sells the snow tires on this tractor? Thanks

Deadman · Mar 7, 2011

I'm the worlds worst drawer, and everything I write, slopes because I never notice how crooked they are going. YET, look how straight my tires are cut. Its super easy, and is not a delicate thing. The force you need to exert, seems to make it easier to control and make straight cuts.

mjncad · Mar 8, 2011

They might be Michelin's BigTurk; but that's just a guess.

chuckd1277 · Mar 8, 2011

I am anxious to hear more on this after the snow melts. How do you think they will do in terms of self cleaning? Will the new grooves just get packed with dirt/mud? Great info so far, thanks!

Deadman · Mar 8, 2011

I'm sure in gooey clay, they will pack full. In dry dirt they shouldn't, as the grooves are pretty wide really.

gladehound · Mar 8, 2011

Things are pretty much thawed out around here. So much so that this past weekend the belly of my tractor was scraping the mud. As would be expected, the grooves fill with mud and stay that way for the most part. I suspect that the grooves make no difference at all in mud. In hard dirt I suspect the extra biting edges will help.

I did work the tractor hard in the mud, dirt and the rocks. Doing some log skidding. One tree that I pulled out was 18" in diameter at the lower part and about 60 feet long so there should have been some force on the tires. Kept the tractor up in the dry areas for skidding. I knocked down one tree with the loader and when pushing the root ball out nearly stalled in a gear that can provide 3,000 pounds of tractive force at the ground - did not spin. Shifted to a gear that can provide 10,000 pounds of tractive force and the ball pushed out. This information is just so you can see that I am putting force on the tires.

When I washed the tires down at the end of the day they were no worse for wear.

FastPauly · Mar 10, 2011

I just finished my rear tires today.....not perfect but what to heck, I gave it my best shot. WOW....my arms are tired from pushing on that iron.:confused2:

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jimgerken · Mar 11, 2011

Fastpauly: looks good. Is that a 2520? And, which cutter did you use?

Deadman · Mar 11, 2011

Looks good. Did you cut them a little shallower, or is the picture just deceiving? Either way, they will make a huge difference, and you can always groove them deeper if you want.

Now, go do the fronts! :thumbsup:

FastPauly · Mar 11, 2011

Yes...it is a 2520. The black rubber worms that are crawling all over the place in the shop measure 3/16" wide by 1/4" deep. It was a #4 head/blade that I used. I was a little skiddish about going too deep.....and as said, I can hit it again when/if needed.

The fronts are done as of a 1/2 hr ago....kind of followed the lug angles to end up with a pattern that hopefully will be of benefit.

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Deadman · Mar 11, 2011

Looks good!

jimgerken · Mar 14, 2011

OK, my Ideal heated Kinfe came on Friday. I ordered #4, #5, and #6 heads and blades. I started thinking about it and decided to wait till I ran this idea past you experienced guys before I started cutting rubber. Waking up on Sunday morning I had a brainstorm and went out to the shop to try it. I assembled a #5 cutter on a #6 head. Below I have attached a photo showing the weird combo #5 cutter on a #6 head on the left, and a standard #4 head and #4 cutter on the right. Hopefully the picture is clear enough so you can see the result. The weird setup gives non-parallel cut lines. I am thinking this will allow the mud to eject more readily. I cut some grooves in a rubber mudflap, and the grooves are still very sharp at the edge, so I am pretty sure the edges will still cut and grip. And of course regardless of the shape cut, the knobs will gain in flexibility, which gives grip too. Any thoughts? Thanks.

FastPauly · Mar 14, 2011

I like the looks of the #6 head.....I would definately consider using that on the rear tires. I wish I had one of them available when I did mine.

gladehound · Mar 14, 2011

jimgerken said:
OK, my Ideal heated Kinfe came on Friday. I ordered #4, #5, and #6 heads and blades. I started thinking about it and decided to wait till I ran this idea past you experienced guys before I started cutting rubber. Waking up on Sunday morning I had a brainstorm and went out to the shop to try it. I assembled a #5 cutter on a #6 head. Below I have attached a photo showing the weird combo #5 cutter on a #6 head on the left, and a standard #4 head and #4 cutter on the right. Hopefully the picture is clear enough so you can see the result. The weird setup gives non-parallel cut lines. I am thinking this will allow the mud to eject more readily. I cut some grooves in a rubber mudflap, and the grooves are still very sharp at the edge, so I am pretty sure the edges will still cut and grip. And of course regardless of the shape cut, the knobs will gain in flexibility, which gives grip too. Any thoughts? Thanks.

My problem is I usually have too many thoughts and nobody wants to hear them :laughing:

Agree mud should eject faster - but in any real mud they will still pack up. Down side is they wont hold snow as well so less snow traction. Just my thoughts. I could be way off.

Speeking of snow, I noticed that my 1/4 inch deep #4 head grooves don't hold snow nearly as well as my 3/8 inch deep #4 grooves. So I suspect I'm getting a lot better snow traction out of my rear tires than the fronts. I can't go any deeper on the fronts, only 1/4 inch of tread left. I'll go deep on them when I get new tires.

Deadman · Mar 16, 2011

I would just use the right blade with the right head. For whatever reason, the directions say to be sure to only use the right blade and head together......Not sure why.....
I think you would want the cuts more open on the opening edge, and if anything they could be narrower on the side twords the core of the tire. Your combo does the opposite of this.

I would personally just decide on a size and be sure to cut them nice and deep right away. I wish I had cut mine just a little deeper (if anything, but I am 100% happy with them for sure).