Urgent, need security help

gcp said:

Gents, I had a break-in at my property last week. They defeated the entrance cattlegate, easy to do and as shown in the pic, and they drove in to steal a 5x10 trailer, a couple of non-functional 4wheelers, and a bunch of other little things. But they didn't get into the workshops and the house, yet.

We are there only on the weekends and the locals know it so, can you please give me some ideas, with pics, on how I can build a better gate in front of or behind the current gate? Steel and cement I would assume would be they right materials to use so as they can't open and drive in.

Your immediate help will be greatly appreciated!

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So sorry to hear of your security problem, especially when you worry about your wife if she's home alone.

It appears you want to stop them at the gate. We have remote property with multiple break in issues. We went through great lengths to secure this property, which included double gating. I presumed thieves are lazy, and after getting through one gate would not waste the effort on the second.

The first gate was a short and long 1/4 log chain welded to two large ash trees connected with high security locks. I routed channels in two 2x4's and concealed the chain in a sandwich. Those trying to crash through were in for a big surprise.

The second gate was several hundred feet down our one lane road. There the gate had 3" steel pipe posts cemented into the ground and braced. This was a common farm gate. The hinged end had steel chain wrapped around it and locked so if the hinges were removed it could not be opened. Same goes for the other end, a chain and lock. No one ever got through it.

We went through great lengths to secure our buildings that would be a very lengthy second subject I won't get into because nothing we did worked. Local thieves were using chain saws for wooden structures and battery powered drills with sockets for metal siding.

The final batch of thieves came in through a long round about way via another owners field and then down a power line right of way that goes through our property. At that right of way I had steel posts driven into the ground so only the lineman's ATV could get through. Tracks proved they used a snowmobile through the posts. We resolved the issue by moving the buildings to our home lot where we have never been bothered.

My point is if they want to get in, they will. I don't know how you, your wife, the community or local LEO's feel about firearms, but personally speaking, that's our method of home defense in case of unlawful entry. If you're not already into it, there's lots of good sporting clubs out there that offer training, licensing help and advice on weapons selection.

ilander said:

So sorry to hear of your security problem, especially when you worry about your wife if she's home alone.

It appears you want to stop them at the gate. We have remote property with multiple break in issues. We went through great lengths to secure this property, which included double gating. I presumed thieves are lazy, and after getting through one gate would not waste the effort on the second.

The first gate was a short and long 1/4 log chain welded to two large ash trees connected with high security locks. I routed channels in two 2x4's and concealed the chain in a sandwich. Those trying to crash through were in for a big surprise.

The second gate was several hundred feet down our one lane road. There the gate had 3" steel pipe posts cemented into the ground and braced. This was a common farm gate. The hinged end had steel chain wrapped around it and locked so if the hinges were removed it could not be opened. Same goes for the other end, a chain and lock. No one ever got through it.

We went through great lengths to secure our buildings that would be a very lengthy second subject I won't get into because nothing we did worked. Local thieves were using chain saws for wooden structures and battery powered drills with sockets for metal siding.

The final batch of thieves came in through a long round about way via another owners field and then down a power line right of way that goes through our property. At that right of way I had steel posts driven into the ground so only the lineman's ATV could get through. Tracks proved they used a snowmobile through the posts. We resolved the issue by moving the buildings to our home lot where we have never been bothered.

My point is if they want to get in, they will. I don't know how you, your wife, the community or local LEO's feel about firearms, but personally speaking, that's our method of home defense in case of unlawful entry. If you're not already into it, there's lots of good sporting clubs out there that offer training, licensing help and advice on weapons selection.

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without sounding too sarcastic, how do you weld chain to a tree? I am assuming you mean you wrapped it around and welded it to itself?

Did you have a lot of valuable stuff in the building that people knew about or what? Seems like a lot of effort for something unless they knew.

You're not sarcastic, you just asked a honest question. Yes, I have a Lincoln welder on a trailer, wrapped the chain around the tree, welded a couple links together. The tree bark right now is engulfing the chain. If it was not the dead of winter and so far away, I'd take a picture.

The buildings contained tools and household goods, we lost about $5,000. The building was very well secured, beyond what a typical person would do. We worked in the western part of the state, lived in rented property and chose to store our extra stuff on our own property in the north central part of the state.

I presume hunters spotted the buildings back in the woods. Posting means nothing to many hunters. The windows had bars, and pieces of plywood blocking the view, so there was no way anyone could have known what was in there.

I said earlier they use chain saws and tools to gain entrance, I thought I had them defeated in that department. I both glued and screwed metal siding to OSB glued to the 2x4 frame of the building, so a chain saw and wrench would do no good.

The doors were a home made glued laminate consisting of a layer of OSB, expanded metal, plywood, and corrugated siding with a angle iron framing on the inside. The hinge side of the door was made in such a way if the hinge pins were removed, that side of the door could not be opened. The latch side of the door had a standard door knob type latch.

The door was close to a building corner. At this corner I took 1" plastic electric conduit and came up from the ground, glued it to a LB junction box with the other end of the LB pointed towards the door. To the average joe this just looked like a simple electric service, but it was all fake. When the cover was removed the head of a bolt could be seen. This bolt protruded through the building framing and screwed into the door. This was in fact a hidden dead bolt. Removing the LB cover, inserting a socket, and backing out the bolt about 20 turns would free the door. A couple times the regular door knobs were knocked off so they could just stick a needle nose in there to open the door, but of course that did not work due to the hidden bolt.

When first built, the sheriff was up and was very impressed with my system. But like I said in the earlier post, it was only good for 15 years. The thieves took a pry bar, and maybe a hammer, and literally chipped away at the door of one building until the bolt was discovered, then used tools to back off the bolt. Another building had a much more complicated hidden bolt system that could only be described with a picture, but to release this door the same LB trick was used.

Like I said earlier, I went to great lengths, and was so disgusted we just moved the buildings. One of the buildings is a quarter mile away, and if you are really interested in this system, I could go take pics tomorrow and post them.

Gents, once again thank you for your kind words of support. They cleaned out all the metal and I have two likely candidates who could have done this. The search is on through LE and personal.

greasemonkey, good idea.
jf, daily security is more important than planning around possible fire and/or or LEO entrance. At worst case they can walk in, it's only 500+ yards to the house.
CNC and islander, being a long time shooter and reloader, I can provide my own targets with punched out bulls eyes, both in rifles and pistols. I pity the fool that enters uninvited while we're here....not that I relish the thought of hurting anyone, in self defense it's the last resort option.

We had someone drop off a 12ft tall pile of tires at the opposite end of our property when i was a kid. My dad ended up using two old 12" OD x .5" wall culvert pipes that were 12 ft long cemented them halfway into the ground as gate post. We used a 16ft heavy gate from tsc (was quality farm and fleet back then) and added bracing similar to the gate shown in a previous post. Also built a heavy duty pin latch set up with a lock. The tsc gate was basically cosmetic because all the beef was behind it. We were fortunate the entrance to the property was an old rail road bed with swamp/pond and steep banks on each side. The only way on then was through water or push over gate with a dozer.

battery powered grinders are now cheap and work well. steel pins for locks and tanges to insert the locks need to be wide enough that a grinder can not cut all the way through. We are using 1/2x3 for pins so the 4inch cutting disk can not cut to the 1/2 way from each side.
Unfortunately, locks and gates are for honest people.
Cam

Grumpy Old Man said:

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=291429"/> This works for me !

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While funny, looks like a good place to bury dead bodies. Hope you have a good lawyer.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

islander, after reading your post one can get depressed in a hurry.

Pics would be great, I love seeing innovation at play.

You could also place a hidden camera after building a stout gate, maybe do some additional rock landscaping and insert this camera in a rock...spendy but looks like of neat

Hidden Rock Camera Long Battery Life Motion Activated With Built In DVR

gcp said:

islander, after reading your post one can get depressed in a hurry.

Pics would be great, I love seeing innovation at play.

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OK, thanks for the invite, I think since this is sort off topic from yours, I will start a separate thread under Projects heading like you did. Once I get wound up saying stuff, as you can see, I get quite lengthy and I will include pictures. Keep in mind the most complicated door latch is the one only a 1/4 mile from home so that will be the one for the pics. Gotta warm up (it's 9 degrees F out there), get on the ATV and go there, I will entitle it "Remote building security" if you want to look for it, in a few hours.

Google Earth and Bing maps do not help in preserving your privacy. Anyone can see what you have and plan a route into a place. Dogs, ditches and pipe gates are the best. Someone needs to be on the property to protect it.

How about a cheap/crude hunting blind sitting way up the drive (100 yards) but in sight of the gate? It might make a thief think twice about breaking in during the day as they would not know if the blind was occupied or if they were being watched. To complete the illusion, maybe scatter a bunch of cigarette butts around inside the blind to make it look as if someone had spent LOTS of time waiting in there- just in case someone walked up to investigate/scout it out. The person scouting it (supposedly looking for a lost dog, ran out of gas etc.) would likely be trying to appear normal (no mask) so a camera would be good here.

I think that an apparent human presence would work best. Dogs, lights that go on and off in a house/camper/tent, smoke from a chimney etc.

If it is a well used highway or if there are any close neighbors- leave the cheap gate and install a hidden siren (high in a hollow tree? accessible only by a ladder) that would sound when the gate was rattled (triggered via a wireless sensor).

Buy a clunker car or truck. Park it at the gate, facing the gate. Hook up a motion detector that works from the car batt. When triggered, the head lights come on for a few minutes or a car alarm triggers. If it is night time, the head lights should scare the crap out of them. Daytime, the alarm might be enough. Car horns are pretty loud.

troutsqueezer said:

Buy a clunker car or truck. Park it at the gate, facing the gate. Hook up a motion detector that works from the car batt. When triggered, the head lights come on for a few minutes or a car alarm triggers. If it is night time, the head lights should scare the crap out of them. Daytime, the alarm might be enough. Car horns are pretty loud.

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This is a great idea. However if they are observing property over time ahead of the break in, they will catch on.

I had a problem on one property where the gate was down the private lane a bit where it was secluded. I moved the gate up to the county road back just far enough room to get a cattle truck off the main road. Never had a break in since. Second property we installed a nice, fancier gate at the county road. Never a break in. I think cattle gates make property look like an easy target, like no one lives there. Don't get a real nice gate or they will assume you have something worth stealing.

Just an idea for you if you park a car as a decoy...On my deer stands, (they have roofs), I have fake heads hanging in them. They are really just gallon jugs with brown t-shirts and eye spots painted on them. I do believe they work since the wind causes them to move and the deer get used to it. Then, when I am hunting a particular stand, I take the head down and my own replaces it. The critters, (and other people), don't know if it's real or memorex. Same kind of thing could go for your parked car/blind on your place.

I would also take the tractor and dig deep ditches alongside the gates and other points of entry.

troutsqueezer said:

Buy a clunker car or truck. Park it at the gate, facing the gate. Hook up a motion detector that works from the car batt. When triggered, the head lights come on for a few minutes or a car alarm triggers. If it is night time, the head lights should scare the crap out of them. Daytime, the alarm might be enough. Car horns are pretty loud.

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I'm going to remember this one...a movable roadblock with light and sound.

JoeBuyer said:

This is a great idea. However if they are observing property over time ahead of the break in, they will catch on.

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If the car/truck is parked at a slightly different angle or position each time during a visit, the perps may never be sure if somebody is home or not. Just a theory...

Great minds think alike! I am preparing my farm truck for exactly that function, alarm, video cameras, siren.....it'll seat about 60 yards back from the gate and it'll raise holly hel$ when the gate sensors trip. In conjunction, I will also be fabricating and installing the forest gate I pictured before so good luck going through it in a timely manner! In addition, at my bridge there will be another 2foot steel barrier that can be emplaced easily when we are there or not.

I'll provide pics as soon as the work is completed. BTW I am also missing a boat trailer, didn't realize it was gone till yesterday so they hit my place most probably twice. The LE investigator is trying hard to retrieve what was stolen :thumbsup:

Lloyd_E said:

The lumber/forest companies up here mount a swinging 8"+ diameter thick pipe to a vertical support with another pipe going from horizontal pipe to post at an angle for support. This gate locks into another post via a locked pin. The pad lock in up inside a steel box(bottom open) you reach inside, unlock, remove lock and pull pin. The gate opens. The lock box is made from 1/2" plate and the pin is usually 1.5"+. I am no expert but I think the only way to get in with this set-up is to use oxy/acet torch. It is massive and the pipes are buried into a large and probably very deep concrete block on both points of ground contact.

Can you get a remote sensor that will turn on lights, radio(and or recording of a loud barking dog with random pattern) - in the house and barn/workshop before the idiots get there. This might slow them down. I would post as much as possible and use as much remote sensing units as you can afford. If it is a continual problem you may find your insurance rates going up... would try to put the money up front into protection.

I would also invite friends/relatives to use the place more often when you are not there and set up a random pattern of visitation. This will keep the idiots guessing...

Feel for ya - good luck.

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Another vote for the horizontal pipe "forestry" gate. Its the standard here. Have it on my own cottage.

Scooby074 said:

Another vote for the horizontal pipe "forestry" gate. Its the standard here. Have it on my own cottage.

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A determined thief can and will get in to your property. You have two real solutions - get insurance for personal property and develop a plan for your wife and your personal defense while you are there. You will never keep out a determined thief