RonMar
Elite Member
Cool concept, but when I looked into it a while back, it was nearly as expensive as putting in a dedicated transfer switch...
Generator backfeeding into utility lines
- Thread starter JDgreen227
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Cool concept, but when I looked into it a while back, it was nearly as expensive as putting in a dedicated transfer switch...
timswi
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My MH doesn't have a transfer switch, the AC cable must be manually plugged into the generator recepticle...Mine's a little low tech in that department. Very similar to back feeding a house. It is a closed loop though.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
We need to get the terminology right.
It is FEEDING the house and BACKFEEDING the power grid. Feeding the house is what you want to do while backfeeding the grid is what you don't want to do. Transfer switch or "island" operation takes care of it.
It is FEEDING the house and BACKFEEDING the power grid. Feeding the house is what you want to do while backfeeding the grid is what you don't want to do. Transfer switch or "island" operation takes care of it.
timswi
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I don't disagree at all..Seems the terms became interchangable..I would NEVER backfeed the overheads, or even try. I feed my house, even though many call it backfeeding anyway.
JB4310
Super Member
Backfeeding seems to be an acceptable term when referring to powering the house thru an existing outlet (female) Since the flow is in reverse on that circuit.
I spoke to a lineman last week, they have been working 16 hour days since the arboreal holocaust here in the North East caused 2 million outages.
I asked him if he heard of any lineman being injured or heard of any grid back feeding stories, he said no.
Not diminishing the threat, but there were more bozos running generators here than probably any other outage in history. I would of thought there would of been some instances of back feeding the grid making the news.
JB
I spoke to a lineman last week, they have been working 16 hour days since the arboreal holocaust here in the North East caused 2 million outages.
I asked him if he heard of any lineman being injured or heard of any grid back feeding stories, he said no.
Not diminishing the threat, but there were more bozos running generators here than probably any other outage in history. I would of thought there would of been some instances of back feeding the grid making the news.
JB
bjmsam
Bronze Member
Lots of good info in this old thread. Quick question below.
Why does the label say 200A rather than 400A? According to the specs:I looked all over the place and the 400amp transfer switch is made of gold. A lot really depends on your utility. I am in Northern Virginia, and have Rappahannock Electric Coop. Here is there pricing page of switches REC Electrical Services Prices I talked with them and was able to bump up into the next size switch. I also paid a little more than the $1,400 which is the 25kw.
If you look at the break down of what it would cost with;
400amp transfer switch
wiring
electrician labor
utility to pull meter and put back
permit
it really adds up. I am sure it would be more than the $1,400. And since the utility did it, they have a permanent permit
Will this allow me to connect a 15KW PTO generator to my 400A service that has two 200A exterior disconnects feeding one interior panel each?pspproducts said:
robstaples
Gold Member
I'm not sure I understand your questions. If your already own this Transconnect switch then you could use it temporarily to plug in when your power is out and feed from your PTO seeing that process isn't automatic. Your gen would feed both panels up to its limit. when utility power is restored you'd want to take this out of the path ( unplug meter etc) because it is not rated for 400 amps. the 200/400 question... the picture is of a device rated at 160 amps continuous duty. If your were told something else, that's not what you got.
bjmsam
Bronze Member
In the posts I quoted above, daybreak1998 stated that he has a 400A service but provided a photo of what appears to be a 200A Transconnect switch.
Question 1: Why?
Question 2: When I buy a Transconnect switch for my 400A service, should I not expect to see "400 peak utility amps" printed on the label to indicate that it is the 400A version?
Question 1: Why?
Question 2: When I buy a Transconnect switch for my 400A service, should I not expect to see "400 peak utility amps" printed on the label to indicate that it is the 400A version?
robstaples
Gold Member
I think you should talk to the vendor. The spec describes 3 different models. only the " non metered base" model mentions 400 amps. The convenient retro fit model makes no reference to amperage. Wiring in a manual transfer switch is probably best for a pto generator and a 400 amp servive. You may have to shed some load anyway depending on what wants to run.
daybreak1998
Silver Member
Howdy,
Before you go any further, I would get your utility on the phone to find out if these units are approved for your area.
Do you have 400amp service with 320/400amp meter? Do you have a main service disconnect? (1 400 amp? or dual 200amp breakers?)
Yes, I use my 30kw pto generator with mine. So obviously, a 15kw pto generator will work.
The thread generator transfer switch choices has lots of info
bjmsam
Bronze Member
Here are photos of what I described earlier (400A service with two exterior disconnects each feeding a separate 200A interior panel):
Yesterday I opened a service inquiry with the utility and sent a note to PSP to find out which Transconnect model would work for my configuration. I just read through the other thread you referenced - thanks!
daybreak1998
Silver Member
Howdy,
OK, first... by seeing your pictures, you could use the retro-fit style. You are actually using the dual lugs from the meter which is 200amp service. You would use whatever size fits your situation. Do you have enough room for a box about 20 inches by 30 inches about 3 inches deep? Located next to the meter by that cord from behind the meter. That is the box with the electronic brains and switch gear.
Who is your Utility service?
bjmsam
Bronze Member
We are served by Potomac Edison (FirstEnergy) and it is supposed to be 400A service ("heavy-up" completed in 2012); those two exterior disconnects feed separate 200A interior panels, and one of those panels has the 100A circuit that runs to the subpanel in the barn (conduit visible at far left). Wall space is limited there but the additional box may fit above the meter enclosure.
daybreak1998
Silver Member
Howdy,
Here are some views of the second brains box and the full power plug connection.
Here are some views of the second brains box and the full power plug connection.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Here are photos of what I described earlier (400A service with two exterior disconnects each feeding a separate 200A interior panel):
Yesterday I opened a service inquiry with the utility and sent a note to PSP to find out which Transconnect model would work for my configuration. I just read through the other thread you referenced - thanks!
man, we couldnt get away with an installation like that up here in idaho. Also, thats a 200 amp service judging by the meter it even states 200 a 240 volts right on socket. I see unfused conductors running from meter to disconnects...they would hang me here in Idaho for doing that.
must be alot easier going where you live. your lucky.
So does Idaho require that the service entrance conductors from the meter to the inside load centers be fused? This would require a meter base with provisions for breakers or fuses, right? My house in TN has an identical setup except that the two disconnects are INSIDE. The state electrical inspector told me that the separate disconnects (one for each load center) are required to ensure that fire personnel can disconnect feed to each load center. That makes sense, but having the disconnects in a corner of the basement makes NO sense to me! A local (licensed) electrician installed all the service entrance wiring and the state electrical inspector approved it (in 2010).
- Jay
bjmsam
Bronze Member
My understanding:
Code required disconnects in my case because the meter is not within some maximum distance of the load center panels. Perhaps interior disconnects are used when the extra distance is inside rather than outside. If fuses are not required between meter enclosures and panels, then I don't know why they would be required between meter enclosures and disconnects or between disconnects and panels. Regardless, everything passed inspection in 2012, and I am awaiting responses from my utility company, my electrician and PSP Products regarding use of the Transconnect.
- The continuous load rating of a meter neither reflects or limits the service capacity.
- CL200 meters are often used in 400A enclosures (like mine) as well as in 100A enclosures.
- For accuracy, meters are calibrated at a lower amperage representative of typical demand.
Code required disconnects in my case because the meter is not within some maximum distance of the load center panels. Perhaps interior disconnects are used when the extra distance is inside rather than outside. If fuses are not required between meter enclosures and panels, then I don't know why they would be required between meter enclosures and disconnects or between disconnects and panels. Regardless, everything passed inspection in 2012, and I am awaiting responses from my utility company, my electrician and PSP Products regarding use of the Transconnect.
ultrarunner
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In my old home... the service disconnect is ahead of the meter base which is ahead of the fuse box.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Idaho requires all conductors to be in conduit as they leave the meter, and no more than 16" separation center to center. This means the meter can be in one stud bay and the panels left and right of the meter in next available stud bay. but all conductors are to be in 2" conduit with 4/0 wire to each 200 amp breaker.
we generally use a 400 amp panel with enclosed twin 200 amp breakers.
in the picture above, those feeders to the breakers look WAY to small to be 200 amp feeder wires. There 1/2 the size of the wires leaving the disconnect.
also, on my 400 amp service the meter says 400 amps. i guess its just different up here.
our main disconnects MUST be in easily accessible area like a garage, or the have to be located outside. they would never allow them in a basement
bjmsam
Bronze Member
Perhaps the flash photo is misleading. The wires are flattened on different axes due to how they're routed.
The feeders between the meter enclosure and the disconnects are stamped "2 CDR AWG 4/0 1 CDR AWG 2/0"
The feeders between the disconnects and the load center panels are stamped "3 CDR AWG 4/0 1 CDR AWG 2/0"
In the conduit below the meter enclosure is the lateral from the transformer that comes under the driveway,
In the conduits to the left of the meter enclosure are (large) the line feeding the subpanel in the barn and (small) the CAT-5 cable to the barn.
A quick search revealed this thread: 200 Meter Feeding Two 200 Amp Panels
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