Oil & Fuel dk45s injector pump problems at 500 hrs

[wallace]

I have a CK25 2006 Kioti with 214 hours on it when the fuel injector broke and when a local tractor repair place took it apart it had chipped teeth on the gear. The local Kioti dealer and the company would provide no help except trying to sell me a new pump for over a thousand dollrs. Does anyone out there know where I can buy one that will fit that does not cost a arm and leg? Does Bobcat have one that will fit? Thanks

$765 to your door!

[yoladamama]

New to the site. I have a Kioti CK25H with 80 hours and have sent tractor to local dealer with what I am pretty sure is going to be injection pump failure. Tractor is an 06 year model. Out of warranty and made the last payment on Aug 16 and the very next time I went to start it it would not start. Go figure. I'll post back with the end results and rather or not the area rep from Kioti steps up to the plate and absorbes some of the wallet pain. If it is my injection pump then theres a problem in the design. Clean tractor, fresh fuel, tank always filled after each use to prevent moisture etc etc.........
I'll update when i know more.

[grampa1940]

Mr. Wallace, Is this a new injector pump? Was it made for a Kioti CK25? What kind of warrenty do you give? What is your return policy? Who made the pump? Can you send a picture of the pump? Can the serial numbers/letters be read on the pump?

[MotorSeven]

Mr. Wallace, Is this a new injector pump? Was it made for a Kioti CK25? What kind of warrenty do you give? What is your return policy? Who made the pump? Can you send a picture of the pump? Can the serial numbers/letters be read on the pump?

Grampa give Rick Wallace a call. He knows Kioti's inside and out(sold them for years) and he can answer all your questions. $765 shipped is one heck of a good deal.

[ritcheyvs]

What MotorSeven said.

[yoladamama]

Update from previous post. Sent my Kioti ck25H to dealer and as I thought, the IP was toasted. Tractor was way out of warranty but had only 80 hours one the clock. Service manager contacted the area rep for Kioti and he stepped up to the plate and is providing a new IP free of charge with the exception of labor and transportation. Hopefully the new pump will have been produced after the run of bad IP's and will last a long time as it should. Hat's off to Kioti and the area rep.

[sherrym]

Grampa give Rick Wallace a call. He knows Kioti's inside and out(sold them for years) and he can answer all your questions. $765 shipped is one heck of a good deal.

Hi all,

If you have read this thread from the beginning you will see that this was a very tring and long ordeal. But it did work out for the good. I am the one that posted this thread and these are my conclusions.

1. This is one of the best tractor forums out there.
2. Scott has a lot of knowledge and without his help we would never have been able to do the fix ourselves and had a happy ending.(fixed with no problems)
3. Wallace tractor is the place to buy your new (bobcat)IP pumps from. They are a wonderful dealership that really does care about helping people. Just wish they were closer. Thanks so much rick and anthony.
4. Kioti management needs a lot of help. They not only do not know how to talk to owners with problems they act like they do not care. This will really affect any future purchase decisions.
5. Every one else on this site has been very helpful also and i really appreciate anyone who helped with this problem.
6. If you own a 2006 kioti and you shut off and tractor will not restart, do the above steps scott gave and you should be able to at least determine if it is your IP pump.

UPDATE: We ordered a new bobcat IP pump on 8-30-12 from Wallace tractor and eq. at $320.00 dollars less than what we could have purchased from kioti. We received it UPS on 9-4-12. This also happened to be the day my husband and I started working on his mom's house. It needed repairs and painting and the job took much longer than we thought.

Today 10-12-12 was the first day we had to try to put the new IP on. We started about 1:30 and finished at 5:30. This four hour job may have only needed to be a 2 hr job, but we were taking our time and making sure we didnt get any dirt in anything. After putting new pump and a new two dollar SS guide (recommended by Wallace) in, we then proceeded to put all the other parts back on. Then we bled the system using the procedure for changing the fuel filter. Before hooking back up the throttle cables we turned key to on and watched through the oil fill cover to observe the movement of the IP rack. It worked just like it is suppose to (move to right when key is in on position and to the left when key turned off). We cranked about five times for 3 to 4 seconds and nothing. We then cranked two more times about 7 to 8 seconds and it fired up. Boy were we happy. We let it idle about 5 to 10 minutes then took it for a test run and husband said everything seemed normal.

Before starting any work putting new IP pump on, we changed the oil and oil filter in case any metal in oil from broken teeth on old IP.(Wallace sent us a free bobcat oil filter with our order. I call that really nice and a dealership that understands good PR. Your the best Wallace tractor and equipment. Keep up the good work.)

Hope this will encourage anyone out there having the same problem.
Again thanks to all who have helped.

sherrym

[Coyote machine]

Glad to hear that the OP solved the IP problem.

A side note on Bosch IP's and Bosch in general. Having run an exclusively foreign autos repair shop for 10+ years we sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of parts, and many were made by Bosch from Western Germany. Back in the late seventies and early eighties they were the gold standard, and then some of their stuff started coming out of Brazil, and elsewhere. The quality was no longer bulletproof, and starters and other parts often were bad out of the box. I remember one time having three bum starters for one car from my supplier. I went to another vendor and was finally able to fix the problem.
And yes, Mercedes diesels were excellent machines in those days and seldom did an IP cause serious problems. IMHO just because an IP says Bosch these days doesn't mean .... anymore. It's not just Bosch either, most brands suffer from non-existent QC at the factory, and we as consumers pay big time as a result. If one is lucky enough to have an IP break under warranty jump for joy. If not, don't expect Kioti HQ to give you the time of day on this- especially so called customer service. Their job is to keep you from anyone who might be able to or want to fix a problem. Its pathetic and needs to be addressed, and so does the root cause of the IP problems. No recalls seems to be Kioti's stance - but if one looks carefully there are part number changes in the parts listings for some items like IPs. I can't say whether this is mid-series pump internal parts upgrades or what. Hopefully Kioti works with the pump manufacturer to improve the pump if it has a problem.
I strongly believe the pump parts ought to be available to the aftermarket repair industry, so we have some other choices than OEM high priced, (not necessarily improved from OEM spec) replacement pumps, etc. Otherwise we're just buying the same exact problem we're trying to solve for the second time, with NO guarantee it will outlast the warranty given by Bobcat or Kioti on the replacement part.

[sherrym]

Coyote machine,

I feel the exact same thing. The big diappointment I had with Bosch was that, while you could get people to talk to, they all were US auto people and claimed they could not help me with this issue even when I went to great detail to express how this was only hurting their name. I wonder if that is why you can not trace the Doowon part number back to a Zexel(Bosch owned) and or Bosch IP part number for rebuilds?

As far as Kioti, I finally was able to talk to someone higher up than the customer service girl, but he wanted all the internet information i had found on Bosch in partnership with Doowon Precision Group(the company making IP pumps). He said he was not aware of the connection and would like to see the information. I felt it was his way of saying he didnt believe me, so another reason not to do business with kioti.

As far as other companies doing the same thing, I am afraid you are probably right, but we can only hope they have better customer service and take care of their customers, or we could all start praying the manufacturing comes back to America and hope we still have enough care to make a good product.

[ritcheyvs]

For anyone interested in this IP issue, I started tracking information from Kioti IP posts on TBN and compiling them here:
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns...ti_IP_Data.htm

I will add/update information on that page if I see it in this forum or if I get a message from someone with new data. I might add that there are a couple recent instances where dealers intervened with Kioti and Kioti provided a free replacement IP; however the owner still paid dealer labor and transportation, which was substantial.

I think it's important to note that this problem seems to be limited to 2005-2008 models and is still relatively rare.

This exact same IP seems to be used on Mahindra, Kubota, and maybe other machines. It's a shame we can't just buy replacement gears and/or racks, which can be installed without re-calibrating the IP. I can only recommend that anyone who pays to replace their broken IP keep the old IP for parts. I suspect some TBN members would be happy to buy a gear for $100 or so if that's all they need.

As Kioti Machine said (German) Bosch IPs (and also injectors) from the 70s and 80s almost never failed. Mercedes 240D, 300D, 300TD, and 300SD cars from this era were famous for running half a million miles (or more) if serviced routinely unless abused (like overheating).