Ram 1500 first modern half ton to offer diesel

[jejeosborne]

I see three target markets:
1. Those who have more money than sense, want a diesel and dont care about the cost
2. Those who will be towing heavy (for a half ton) and want better mileage than a gas engine gives (assuming that it gets say 19MPG towing heavy vs 10MPG for the gas engine). Some examples might be the RV crowd, landscapers, etc
3. Those who run a business (ie: a farm, trucking or construction company, quarry, etc) where everything else runs on diesel and want to eliminate the need for a 2nd set of fuel tanks to refuel light pickups

Aaron Z

I can't think of any additional reasons. The 3rd option to me makes some sense too for people who want to fuel at home. The shelf life for diesel would allow some to be able to do that easier. I can now do that with gasoline but I have 3 vehicles, atvs, boat, and 3 motorcycles that go through it pretty quick.

[brain55]

I will try to get things back on target by posing a question.

Who here would choose this new diesel option over the hemi if the added cost is indeed $2300 and it got 27 mpg highway and towing capacities are equal?

Trying to keep things simple and posing the question with only these two options. No other makes or engines in this discussion.

Feel free to give the reason why you choose your choice.

I wouldn't, but I don't see the point of 1/2 ton trucks anyway. Especially in a work environment. I realize they are rated for a lot more now than they used to be, but I guess I'm just old and set in my ways.

Brian

[Dmace]

I will try to get things back on target by posing a question.

Who here would choose this new diesel option over the hemi if the added cost is indeed $2300 and it got 27 mpg highway and towing capacities are equal?

Trying to keep things simple and posing the question with only these two options. No other makes or engines in this discussion.

Feel free to give the reason why you choose your choice.

For my limited use and harsh winters, I wouldn't but for fleet use this is a winner!
We average 50-75K miles per year on most of the trucks and while the new gas engines are holding up well, a diesel may go even longer. Plus being able to fill it at our shop from the massive storage container pumps since we buy in bulk would help too!

With only 240 HP it won't tow as well as the 395 HP HEMI but 420 LB.FT of torque and an 8 speed tranny will mean less shifting and better fuel economy while towing. If I needed a daily driver with decent towing, I would certainly test drive this to compare but still would rather have a good simple gas engine with more power so I would stick with the HEMI and 8 speed tranny.

I look forward to some magazine testing in a quad cab 4x4 with the 8 speed and 3.73 rear. Should tow pretty well!

[aczlan]

Interesting viewpoint. I can see point 1 is humorous, and 3 is plausible. On point 2, do you really think the difference is that great in half ton towing for the two fuels? I don't know the answer, I just wouldn't have thought it was that great. Maybe it is.

Well, Dodge and Ford V8s (from what I have read online) get 7-12 towing heavy (ie: over 6000#) and 14-20MPG on the highway empty.
Time will tell how the new Dodge diesel does, but generally speaking, diesels lose less MPG when towing.
For example, my parents '99 E350 with the 7.3L gets 18MPG empty on the highway and it got 14MPG when towing a 16' steel horse trailer on the highway or runnign around town. The V8 or V10 gas version of that van got 14MPG on the highway with a tailwind and was lucky to get 8MPG towing a heavy trailer (we had a V10 van for a few weeks due to a incompetent dealership doing a recall).

Running the numbers, I get (assuming the towing/not towing mileages are: Gas 9/18MPG, Diesel 18/25MPG, fuel is $3.90/$4.20 and they drive 10k miles/year):
Fuel cost towing/not towing: Gas: $4333/$2166, Diesel $2333/$1680. $2000/year less in fuel for the Diesel (if you drop the Diesel towing MPG to 15, it would use $2800 in fuel, $1533 less than the gas engine).

Aaron Z

[94BULLITT]

Well, Dodge and Ford V8s (from what I have read online) get 7-12 towing heavy (ie: over 6000#) and 14-20MPG on the highway empty.
Time will tell how the new Dodge diesel does, but generally speaking, diesels lose less MPG when towing.
For example, my parents '99 E350 with the 7.3L gets 18MPG empty on the highway and it got 14MPG when towing a 16' steel horse trailer on the highway or runnign around town. The V8 or V10 gas version of that van got 14MPG on the highway with a tailwind and was lucky to get 8MPG towing a heavy trailer (we had a V10 van for a few weeks due to a incompetent dealership doing a recall).

Running the numbers, I get (assuming the towing/not towing mileages are: Gas 9/18MPG, Diesel 18/25MPG, fuel is $3.90/$4.20 and they drive 10k miles/year):
Fuel cost towing/not towing: Gas: $4333/$2166, Diesel $2333/$1680. $2000/year less in fuel for the Diesel (if you drop the Diesel towing MPG to 15, it would use $2800 in fuel, $1533 less than the gas engine).

Aaron Z

What about a ecoboost?

[Egon]

<With only 240 HP it won't tow as well as the 395 HP HEMI but 420 LB.FT of torque and an 8 speed tranny will mean less shifting and better fuel economy while towing. >

With 8 speed transmission would there not be more shifting ?

[Dmace]

What about a ecoboost?

Same as the other gas engines, decent empty mpg but drops much more than a diesel when towing. Reports online say it drops more than competitive V8 gas engines as well.

With 8 speed transmission would there not be more shifting ?

Technically ha ha!
To get up to speed yes but it should be able to hold the correct gear better when needed vs constant downshifting in a 5 speed tranny.
And the TQ will mean less shifting not the tranny. ;-)

[aczlan]

What about a ecoboost?

18-22 unloaded, 8-12 towing heavy. Close enough for heavy towing that it doesn't make much difference.
If it gets 10MPG towing and 22 MPG unloaded, it will cost $3900 for towing fuel and $1772 for unloaded fuel.
Unloaded the diesel would save $9/year in fuel. Loaded, the diesel would save $1100/year in fuel (assuming 10k miles/year and the same gas prices as above)

Aaron Z

[MacTractor]

The thing I don't quite understand with some of the calculations on Gas vs. Diesel is the fact that residual value is never accounted for.

If you take the base calculations you are assuming that the additional cost for the diesel option is carried and lost as the vehicle depreciates to $0. I don't normally buy vehicles and then own them until their value is $0. If I pay $2K, $4k, or whatever for the diesel option, when I sell the vehicle it is typically worth more than a gasser for the same reason at resale. In the end for me the upfront cost might be $4K but if the truck is worth $2K more at resale than an a gasser, my cost was $2K

Take the $2K now and use this in you gas vs. diesel calculations. If you do buy your truck and then actually own it till the residual value is $0 then this would work.

I actually found that my Jeep CRD basically lost nothing from a diesel option when I sold it because it was sought after by those looking for a diesel in an SUV. I was paid much more for it than if it were a Hemi Limited S, to the tune of a couple of thousand $$ more. This was after 4 years and putting 133K KMS on it. So basically gas vs. diesel cost for me was the interest paid on the difference between the additional cost upfront.

I know several people who plow and from a business perspective they pay more for the diesel upfront, use less fuel, then when they sell they get more for the truck than they would if it were the gas model. The value in diesel for them is worth it.

In the end after all of this, I guess I would be put as someone else put it in their eyes, in the category of the more $$ than common sense as I prefer the diesel option.

Cheers,

[Dmace]

The thing I don't quite understand with some of the calculations on Gas vs. Diesel is the fact that residual value is never accounted for.

Good point! Many people forget about resale value when comparing gas vs diesel.