How much hp/weight would you want?

I'm thinking of trading up and getting a cab tractor. I plan to be rolling 400-500 4x4 rolls of hay as well as sqaure baling a couple thousand (no kicker or thrower maybe a wagon) . I would use my tractor for everything on the farm (170 acres). As you can tell by my profile I'm in SE Ky where the slopes are plentiful and the roads are narrow. Currently I'm using the mahindra 6000 4x4 I bought new in 03. I will be trading it in. It does everything I want to do, but it lacks in a few areas. First no cab. I can handle the heat. The dust is kind of rough when rolling, but I can even handle that. What I cannot handle is the cold. When I'm putting out hay for myself and neighbors in the cold and rain is when I want a cab. Second I have a 8ft cut First Choice disc mower and it really drags the tractor down in thick grass. Other than that and a few problems I had with the tractor along the way (mostly electrical) it has done what was needed. It really handles my roller well. I would consider trading and going down a notch on the disc mower dept.. I am looking really hard at the Mahindra 7010 cab made by TYM. Same tractor as the TYM and the Montana 70 series, different engine (mahindra). Weight and size wise it is very close to the same as the 6000 with roughly 12 more engine hp and 63 pto hp or about 11 more at the pto. Is that much hp difference going to be noticed since the engine would be running the ac when I'm mowing? Is that enough tractor for what I want to do? I know it will do it but I cannot find one person who can comment on owning the tractor. I've looked at the Deeres and Kubotas, but figure I'll get more in trade with the Mahindra dealer. I sat on the 5425 Deere and love it but I don't see 7 or 8 thousand dollars more tractor there. Also considered the Kioti dk 65 but it just seems even more under powered than the 7010. I don't want to spend more $40000 on a !NEW! (financing) 4x4 cab tractor with a fel. The Mahindra was quoted at $36000 with hay spear and pallet forks. In 2 1/2 years I have only put close to 400 hours on the 6000 to give you some idea of how much time I am actually on the tractor but I expect to put that much on it a year by 2008. Custom work here is easy to get and I want to do more of it. If you were me how much hp and weight would you want?

For what you are talking I would want a minimum of a 75 horse tractor. Ideally you would be in the 90 horse range as that will do a lot of what you want and then some in case you ever want to do more. Weight wise, I would think around 10k would be a decent number if you are sticking to a FWA/Loader tractor.

If the tractor you have now works fine why not look for a used 2wd cab tractor. You can find a lot of used tractors with loaders in the 70-90hp range and can get some real nice machines for $25k and still have your other tractor. Then you can use both depending on conditions/desires.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you were me how much hp and weight would you want? )</font>

More!

I guess I'm not impressed with the lines of tractors you are looking at. I would get a used main brand for less money, & much easier to keep it running if things go bad. Hay doesn't wait - you gotta run when it needs to run. NH, JD, Case, or Kubota.

I'd want 75hp anyhow.

I'd spend $10,000 less on a good used than you plan on spending on a new, & keep the 'old' tractor. Tho at only 400 hours, I guess it is hard to keep both machines, probably only need one. Sure is hard to make hay with just one tho, mowing, raking, baling, back & forth with the implements....

--->Paul

After doing essentially what you're going to do for a few years myself, with a 60 HP tractor as my biggest, I'd say 75 as an absolute minimum. And more like 85 to 90 if you can afford that route.

I agree with everyone. The tractors you are looking at are fine for the hobby farmer and for chore tractors but if you're going to be putting real time on those tractors and don't want to be disappointed step up to tractors that were really made for farming. They will put the hp to the ground and to the pto. I also agree you should be looking at 70-85 pto hp tractors not gross hp. If you're going to run ac, baler, hydraulics, hills, etc. you need the hp. Also look very seriously at your hydraulics. Most of the cheaper tractors skimp on hydraulics. If you don't step up you will very likely be very disappointed and making these same decisions later on that will likely cost you that $10-20k extra you are trying to save now.

Joel,
It sounds like you want a good, strong dependable tractor with a cab that is also not overly expensive to purchase. You need to look at the 400 series Massey. This series has 52 to 99 engine hp and 44 to 85 PTO hp. With the new cab that became available a year or two ago and a shuttle transmission, this tractor would just fit into your operation.
MF 400 series

Am I dumb? I don't see where the hydraulics will matter so much. Once I set the disc mower where I want it and only using them to dump bales would I need more hydraulics than the tractors I'm looking at make? I don't plow or grow crops of any kind. The biggest mower I have is 7ft. I want more hp however I'm just having trouble justifying it. Most of the feilds here are just a few acres up to say 60 acres. I'd love to have a tractor for each implement, but I'm lacking financially. Also I can only run one tractor at a time.
The Mahindra has some nice options and they say it has the same engine that the 7520 has and it is listed at an actual 75 hp. Which would mean probably 65 pto hp. I really like the remote lift arm controls.
I've looked at the Massey 400 series the neighbor has although it doesn't have a cab I'm sure the cab is as nice as the Mahindra. They are nice tractors as are the Botas, but the dealer just left a bad taste in my mouth. I won't deal with someone who isn't personable. He seemed to be like this is retail and that's what I get. Plus the tranny's are lacking 16x16 on the Mahindra best I can hope for with the Massey is 8x8. Would a tractor that weighed 2000 pounds less with only 7 or 8 less hp not be comparable?
like I said the tractor I have now is doing fine. Maybe I should just go down to a 7ft cut disc mower with one disc less.
I love my little Vermeer Rebel roller and that's all I'll ever need is 4x4 rolls.

Come on 5030 you put up a lot of hay and did it with a small tractor for a while what's your thoughts?

If it were me I would be wanting to find the cheapest way to get what you want/need, I don't like handing over any more of my paycheck than I have to......

Ok, from my understanding a cab is a big goal ( I hear you on that one, moving round bales on an open tractor when its 10F is not fun! )

Second goal, a better match for your disc mower, either bigger tractor to same mower or smaller mower to same tractor ( but current tractor is still lacking a cab )

So...I think you have found your solution, buy the tractor you are looking at with a few more hp and a cab, try it with you disc mower you have now, if it won't run it the way you want, swap disc mowers for a slightly smaller one.....

You could also consider a drum mower, from what I understand they don't require the amount of hp as a disc mower for the same length.

No you are not dumb, but I will say this. From what I have learned over the past couple years is this. Even if you don't "think" you need something now, you might in the future and it is better to get the right machine now instead of having to upgrade again in a few years because you change equipment or expand.

No one is telling you to buy one thing over the other we are just answering your question about what we all think would work and most all of us agree you want at least a 75pto hp tractor to run your equipment easily. I used a 110pto hp tractor on a 4x4 Hesston round baler and she worked fine even with the AC going. I didn't need that much hp for that baler but it worked and I have the extra horses for when I do other things.

If I remember right, Daryl bought the 5030 because he wanted a hydro. But he also had other larger tractors and he replaced the 5030 with a larger tractor.

You didn't ask if you could get by with a smaller tractor as you already know you can. If you want to buy a new Mahindra then get the biggest tractor they offer and go for it. It is your money and you have to be happy with what you buy. I have a TN I bought new but bought my 7710 used and would rather take that tractor out then the TN. I was like you as the TN had a loader and an open station but the cab is so much nicer and the tractor is twice the hp of the TN and handles my equipment so much easier. I still smile at the fact I paid just under $14k for it when a new tractor that size is in the $50k range. There are a lot of great, used tractors that will supplement your current tractor quite well without breaking the bank. It never hurts to look at used as you might find something you like. Good luck with whatever you choose.

It's all just good discussion here. I know noone wants to make a decision for me. As things come to mind I peck them out. I have tried to imagine what the most I might do is and that's what I posted. I cannot see anything else, but I thought 3 years ago I would never want a cab.
The dealer has only offered $15000 for my tractor on trade which equals $20000 difference. Certainly I can and may find a good 2 or even 4 wd tractor with a cab for that amount. The only thing is financing just kills you on something used like that and the bank I usually deal with doesn't do any used tractor loans.
Maybe I should just wait and see what develops, but with custom work calling it's tough to not take the plunge.

Financing aside, it sure would look sweet to me to get a good used 80-90 hp tractor for $15,000, saving you 5 grand, and giving you 2 tractors so you have no downtime for tractor repairs. Personally I find 1977 - ~1990 tractors to be more durable, rugged, & better lasting than the new plastic & computer chipped machines out there. My personal opinion, and without warrenty there is bigger risk, more chance of sticking bucks into an unknown machine.

Credit unions often do financing differently than banks, and there are ag-based financing companies that are getting more aggressive in looking for clients.

As mentioned we are all just discussing options, whatever works out for you is best. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

I read a lot of what I went through in your comments. I bought the family farm and a JD model A came along with it. My new tractor drivers were primarily safety (ROPS & seat belt) and convenience diesel powered (to match other stuff I dragged in the barn.)

To make a long story short, I ended up buying a Zetor cab loader with 55PTO and 10K lbs. Pricewise it was $20K cheaper than the "big 3" in my area. I really liked the 5420 Deere but my first task was to lift a 40' container & the 5420 did not have the spec's for it. After 2 years and 200 hours it is still the right decision for me. Snow clearing at -15 and mowing at +95, helping neighbors who ride along in the jump seat...

I fixed up the A as a second tractor pulling trailers, wagons etc. I only drive one at at time but still save time picking & loading then transport & dumping.

Might ask a wider net of dealers about financing, my dealer had insight into county programs that subsidized interest on agricultural equipment purchases. I never heard it widely advertised but the funding was part of a larger rural capital investment push. Another point is that a dealer may have a customer wanting what you have so he will offer you more in trade because he knows the tractor will never sit on the used lot.

It might help to run the financials to determine break even timing with various scenarios.

Interesting thread, keep us posted /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd seriously consider a second tractor for a variety of reasons since you're going to be doing custom work .

First, if you expand your acreage there's always the chance that the weather will close up the window of opportunity and you might need a second operator to be cutting or rolling while you are baling

Second even if you don't need the second operator , having the second rig hitched to the next tool can save a lot of time.

Third, as mentioned previously, downtime. Sometimes the window for baling quality hay is pretty narrow and having to wait on parts even overnight, can make a huge difference.

When you've got a 3 year old tractor with 400 hrs on it, newer than a whole bunch of people on this board, I can understand the disenchantment with going through the trade process again. A cab is worth the extra $5-8K for comfort and such, no doubt.

Then again, noticing your avatar, maybe you should just wait while your union renegotiates the next contract and maybe they can guarantee you can get smaller fields having less density....solving your problems.

A great big grin..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MF 491/cab/4wd/MF 1070 fel/ bought 12/05=77ptohp = 35K. Same setup with a NHTL90 = 39k. A JD with 75 pto hp like above could not be bought for less than 40k. At least in my area( W TN ). As I see it, you have 2 options. Keep the 4wd open station that you have and buy a used 20k cab 2wd (at least) 75-? pto hp tractor. Of coures, the only time you will need the 4 wd is when you need the cab /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif - when you are putting the hay out in the cold, wet,muddy winter. Or trade/sell your current tractor and buy new within your 40k budget. My 77 pto hp does fine with 6x6 rounds (since the tractor is ballested to ~ 11k lbs). As many have suggested, I wouldn't go less than 75 pto hp.

This whole process of deciding what fits my budget, my needs, and my wants has me disgusted. I should have bought a cab tractor the first time. Then again maybe I should forget this whole venture and keep my tractor, only do my own hay, and try to be complacent. It will take a lot of custom work to make the $20k difference. On the other hand even though it is work I really enjoy it.
I really feel like a 70 hp tractor will meet my needs here on my place. What would start using it up would be doing for everybody else. I'm not sure that's even profitable. At 170 acres I'm right between being too small to even bother with hay and too big not to.
Thanks to all that have let their thoughts be known.
What was it with that union crack? Here's some food for thought. Only 12% of americans belong to a union, but 63% of those asked would join a union if available to them.

Another Story:
It was 100 degrees that day and the ironworkers were working on the eighth floor of an office building under construction in the heart of downtown. One of the ironworkers sat down to eat his lunch and spotted a clerk gesturing to him from the building across the way.
The clerk had written a note he was holding up to his office window with a superior and a smug look on his face. The note bragged, " It's 70 degrees in here."
The building tradesman smiled and reached into his lunchbox and wrote on his napkin. He held it up for the clerk to read:
IT'S $30 AN HOUR OUT HERE!

I'll stay out of the heat vs hourly wage thing, but the statement about 12% of the US population belonging to a union but 63% of folks asked wanting to join a union only becomes meaningful if you know what percentage of the population was asked.

If you ask 100 folks and 63 want to join, that is all well and good but you can't extend that ratio to the nation as a whole unless that 100 folks is an even sampling of the nation. Even then the sample size is to small to be reliable when applied to the US population.

=)

Of course any poll can manipulated. Those aren't my numbers. I've been following this whole "Coalition To Win" deal pretty close and that's where the numbers came from. I just know I'm glad to have a union!

Back to crops: an acre of ginseng may gross well into 6 digits. 5-10 acs of hardwood veneer quality trees may get 6-7 digits of revenue after 10-15 years.

Or clean out the barn and add neon lights with dancing girls /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I work for one of the largest general contractors in the state of Kentucky. We were union until 10 years ago. Rumor got out that the company was thinking about becoming NON union. We had a meeting with all the employees who'd been with the company for longer than 5 years. We put it to a vote, and 96 of the 105 employees polled cast their vote in favor of ELIMINATING the union. We are now a much leaner, more competitive business, with a better bottom line. Employees are happier, and life is grand.

I'm not sure what union official gave you those numbers, but they don't reflect reality in any way shape or form. Unions were needed back in the "sweat shop days" but have long since outlived their usefullness. They are in large part, the reason why so many of our jobs are leaving this country. The "You can't fire me, no matter what I do or DON'T do" mentality they foster has ruined many a thriving business.