Tractor Sizing What size tractor and loader?

furnacebrook · Aug 3, 2006

Is there anyone out there that has a Nortrac 40hp? I have been looking at the specs of their loader on this tractor and they say it will lift 2470lbs at full height. What I need is a chinese tractor big enough and with a loader strong enough to lift at least 2000lbs. What I'm doing is unloading stove pellets off of my trailer several time a year as well as loading other crates for my business. Your all probably wondering why I don't just get a fork truck. Well my loading yard is very muddy and unlevel many times of the year and I would need a large rough terrain fork lift for this area. I would also like to have a machine that I can use for other things than just lifting. This is why I'm leaning toward another tractor set up with forks.( I have a small Kubota with forks that works great just not big enough for the 2000lbs). I need it to do the job and then some. I'm looking at the Nortrac because of the backing of Northern but, I'm open to suggestions for others.

Thanks for any help,

Scott

greg_g · Aug 3, 2006

furnacebrook said:
I'm looking at the Nortrac because of the backing of Northern

I think that statement will draw some replies from current NorTrac owners, but I'll leave that to them. My advice is to buy from a reputable local dealer that competently services what he sells

About the size of tractor/loader; are you sure about your 2000# figure? When I buy full pallets of 40 to 50 pound bags of anything, it's a 3000# load.

//greg//

tat2z1969 · Aug 3, 2006

Nortrac's service is that great, many have had problems getting repairs done by them in a timely manor.
I would go with a front end loader that will lift more weight, the figure you stated is not much head room for what you are doing. Also I have seen the loader they use and I don't think it is built as well as a Koyker and some others.
The tractor they sell in the 40 hp class is a Foton, I would find a dealer closer to you or one with a better service reputation. The Foton is a very good machine and can be had for less than what Nortrac wants for them.
Tommy from Affordable tractor sales who posts on this board sells them, he might be able to give you some advice on size and weight spec's

greg_g · Aug 3, 2006

tat2z1969 said:
The tractor they sell in the 40 hp class is a Foton,

Where'd you get that? To the best of my knowledge, Northern still sells only Jinmas at the moment. See http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200312757_200312757
Sure looks like a Jinma to me. Note by the way, that the detailed specs indicate the loader lift capacity (at pivot) is only 1500#.

Maybe you're thinking of the FarmPro or RuralKing 40hp offerings. Here's one: http://ruralking.com/rko/cart.cgi?PRODUCT=030010921 and another: http://www.farmprotractors.com/FarmPro/Farmpro_4020.asp?ID=Features. Both Fotons.

//greg//

Bob_Skurka · Aug 3, 2006

furnacebrook said:
I have been looking at the specs of their loader on this tractor and they say it will lift 2470lbs at full height. What I need is a chinese tractor big enough and with a loader strong enough to lift at least 2000lbs. What I'm doing is unloading stove pellets off of my trailer several time a year as well as loading other crates for my business.

Scott, I honestly don't know the real specs on that tractor and it might do what you want, but you should be aware that it might not. SOME loaders are rated at the 'pivot pins' and if that 2470# capacity is a pivot pin rating, then the capacity 'in the bucket' is going to be roughly 30% less, leaving you with a capacity of about 1725# in the bucket. You should also be aware that SOME loaders are rated without the weight of the bucket itself, and a bucket can weigh a few hundred pounds, depending on its size.

Further, if you are going to mount pallet forks on the tractor, then that pushes the load even farther out away from the 'pivot pins' so it actually lowers the load capacity even more.

So what you really need to be careful of is to make sure you know exactly how the loader is rated, and where it is rated. Again, I do not know how that loader is rated, I'd just hate to see you buy something that won't work for you. Perhaps someone with a Nortrac knows who manufacturs the loaders for Northern and they can help with some specific information.

RonMar · Aug 3, 2006

Bob_Skurka said:
Further, if you are going to mount pallet forks on the tractor, then that pushes the load even farther out away from the 'pivot pins' so it actually lowers the load capacity even more.

And that is the critical point, to move a ton pallet on forks you will be shifting the weight out a considerable distance from the bucket pivot. The best bet would be a quick detach bucket and a pallet fork bucket with the fork bases back near the pivot. This would reduce the forces and remove the weight of the heavy bucket. Greg a ton of wood pellets is pretty near that weight, 50EA, 40# bags stacked on a wood pallet and plastic wrapped.

I will be doing the same thing, only a loader bucket full of bags at a time. I just built a flatbed for my truck so I can bring home the pallet complete/wrapped, but I will have to break it down on the truck to get it into my storage area. The good thing about this is it will always be moveing the bags downward and I can mostly slide the bags. Slide off top of pile into bucket and slide out of bucket onto stack in storage. Sure better than toteing them 1 bag at a time.

greg_g · Aug 3, 2006

RonMar said:
Greg a ton of wood pellets is pretty near that weight, 50EA, 40# bags stacked on a wood pallet and plastic wrapped.

I'm not in a position to argue specifics, you may very well buy from someone that sells ton lots. But every shrink-wrapped pallet of bagged material I've purchased in recent years (feed/seed/lime/fertilizer/et cetera) weighed 3000 pounds - whether it be 60 fifty pound bags or 75 forty pound bags. Maybe it's a regional thing.

I mentioned it to FURNACEBROOK on the off chance his pellet pallets actually went the full 3000#. Wouldn't want to buy a tractor based on it's ability to lift a ton, only to find out your ton was actually a ton and a half. Besides, the spec sheet to which I linked (NorTrac 40hp w/loader) clearly indicates it's a 1500# loader anyway.

//greg//

Bob_Skurka · Aug 3, 2006

greg_g said:
Wouldn't want to buy a tractor based on it's ability to lift a ton, only to find out your ton was actually a ton and a half. Besides, the spec sheet to which I linked (NorTrac 40hp w/loader) clearly indicates it's a 1500# loader anyway.

//greg//

Greg, after looking at the link you provided, it sure appears that the loader is not even close to the capacity that would be needed. It clearly states:

Lift capacity to maximum height at pivot level: 1500 lbs.

1500# at the pivot point would yield an 'in bucket' lift capacity of roughly 1050# which is only 1/2 of the load that needs to be lifted by Scott.

RonMar said:
to move a ton pallet on forks you will be shifting the weight out a considerable distance from the bucket pivot. The best bet would be a quick detach bucket and a pallet fork bucket with the fork bases back near the pivot. This would reduce the forces and remove the weight of the heavy bucket.

Absolutely correct that you want to use a QA system so you can remove the bucket and use forks, and that does move the center of weight closer to the pivot point . . . but the weight is still well forward of the pivot points. A standard freight pallet is 40" wide by 48" deep. If lifted on forks that are set only 6" in front of the pivot point, the center of the load is going to be 6" + 24" forward of the pivot point, so it is a total of 30" forward of the pivot points. Moving 19.2" forward of the pivot point reduces the capacity by roughly 30%, as I previously pointed out. Moving another 11" forward to 30" (which is the center of the pallet) would further reduce the capacity, but I honestly don't know what that additional reduction would be.

Clearly the tractor is way to small for the task.

I wonder if a modest sized industrial wheel loader would be a be option since he needs to use this on muddy uneven ground.

tat2z1969 · Aug 3, 2006

greg_g said:
Where'd you get that? To the best of my knowledge, Northern still sells only Jinmas at the moment. See http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200312757_200312757
Sure looks like a Jinma to me. Note by the way, that the detailed specs indicate the loader lift capacity (at pivot) is only 1500#.

Maybe you're thinking of the FarmPro or RuralKing 40hp offerings. Here's one: http://ruralking.com/rko/cart.cgi?PRODUCT=030010921 and another: http://www.farmprotractors.com/FarmPro/Farmpro_4020.asp?ID=Features. Both Fotons.

//greg//

your right, I was thinking Rural King

Bob_Skurka · Aug 4, 2006

greg_g . . . can you point us to the loader specs for the Rural King loader for the 20 series tractor? I can't find the specs. The specs do show that it has ~1500# of capacity at the 3pt hitch measured at 24" behind the ball eyes and typically a 3pt hitch has more capacity than a FEL so I see a "red" flag already.

I'm thinking that Scott needs to look at MUCH bigger tractors to get an honest 2000# capacity on the FEL. Just for reference, I looked into my manuals and found the specs for the 45hp New Holland tractor and the 16LA loader, it lists lift capacity at 1545# at 19.7" in front of the pivot point. I don't have a Kubota manual for a tractor larger than 30hp so I don't know what size tractor would be needed from that brand. I checked Kioti, the 1590 loader fits the 45hp DK, it lifts 2500# at the pivot points, so it would be slighly stronger than the NH loader, but still not enough to lift 2000# out on a pallet fork. It seems like Scott may need to look at tractors in the 55 to 70 hp range to get a strong enough loader to lift 2000# out on the forks.

I've got a brother in law with a big 70hp Tractor King (Rural King), but he knows less about his tractor than I do so its pointless to ask him since he'd just ask me!