2016 Case ih 50A won't start

[jonn454]

My tractor won't start! All safety switches have been checked and are in proper working order. The tractor can be started by jumping the starter, so it's clearly an electrical issue. As I am finally out of ideas, I was curious if anyone has ever been in this situation and may offer an idea. What I have determined:

1. The starter is not receiving the 12v power from the small wire to turn it over.
2. I traced that small wire up to a relay on the driver's side, under the hood near the hinge.
3. In that relay, there is a large hot wire and two smaller wires. I am ASSUMING that the hot wire should be powering the 12v wire to the starter when I turn the key, but that is not happening. I can jump the hot wire to the 12v wire and start the tractor.
4. The 2 smaller wires that are also in this relay were traced as:
A. One goes to the main relay box on the front of the tractor, into the "crank protection" relay.
B. The other goes to the main relay box on the front of the tractor, into the "PTO safety" relay.

Am I correct in thinking that I have the issue at least narrowed down to the relay where I traced the small 12v wire from the starter to? I have replaced the relay and tested it, so that's not the problem.

Thanks for any advice. I don't know if this even makes sense, but I appreciate your time in reading.

 

[Blown R/T]

Ignition switch?

 

[jonn454]

Ignition switch?

Not the ignition switch either.

 

[jonn454]

So I found and corrected the problem. Just in case it may help someone else, I wanted to post the SIMPLE fix I found in my case.

I searched online and found a $20 download for the electrical schematic for my tractor. I then began working backward from the starter and found that a relay switch in the PTO SAFETY was not functioning. I replaced it and all was well.

I know nothing about electricity, but I studied the electrical schematic and it began to make sense. I feel confident now that I could have found any electrical problem with enough time, so don't be intimidated! If I can figure it out, ANYBODY can.

As I thought when I began my quest, it was a very simple problem; however, without the electrical schematic, I would never have been able to narrow it down.

Thanks to all who read and those who replied.

 

[BARDING]

So I found and corrected the problem. Just in case it may help someone else, I wanted to post the SIMPLE fix I found in my case.

I searched online and found a $20 download for the electrical schematic for my tractor. I then began working backward from the starter and found that a relay switch in the PTO SAFETY was not functioning. I replaced it and all was well.

I know nothing about electricity, but I studied the electrical schematic and it began to make sense. I feel confident now that I could have found any electrical problem with enough time, so don't be intimidated! If I can figure it out, ANYBODY can.

As I thought when I began my quest, it was a very simple problem; however, without the electrical schematic, I would never have been able to narrow it down.

Thanks to all who read and those who replied.

WHERE DID YOU FIND DIAGRAM

 

[jrabun88]

Hey I sent you a private message. I have a 70A and have had similiar problems.

 

[sequoyah101]

Same here. Running fine and dandy two weeks ago and today, nothing.

If it is that relay or some other one wiring all the safety interlocks together will do no good. How about just one wire from the ignition switch to the starter and just do away with all the stupid switches and interlocks?

I have bypassed the seat switch for ages with a jumper. Ditto with the transmission switch since it failed.

Had it started once and unhooked the jumpers and it died like it had been hit with a hammer.

Crawled under checked the brake switch and it is working but not sure about the clutch. While I was trying to start the machine I moved the clutch and it caught once again then died almost immediately.

Now nothing at all but left it on the float charger that indicates it is charging.

If I thought bypass all the safety interlock junk and just go direct from the starter switch to the starter I would. Does anyone know if the computer enters into any of this equation?

People should know that more connectors and more junk just mean less reliability. Tractors should not need computers or anything related to that.

I have a JCB 210S that has no less than seven circuits that must all function for the machine to start. Good luck keeping all that going on a 30 year-old machine with on ly 1450 hours. It now has a direct line from the switch to the starter.

Hope it is not the engine control module. Tomorrow I'll start jumpering around safety switches before I begin to suspect he starter switch and have to tear the dash apart.

Wish I just had a fleet of xx20 series John Deere's. The 50 year old 820 and the 40 plus year old little 750 soldier on reliably and are easy to fix. I need to see if I can find a pair or 4030s or something like that but everybody else wants the same things. Wet sleeve and last forever.

 

[sequoyah101]

The problem was a relay. Not just one but three relays were found to be failed as they had no coil resistance. One was on the work lights and the other two on the starter safety circuit.

The problem remains though... I don't know how they failed. Scorched it appears, the caps inside were dark with plastic residue when I pried them open. I have never had a relay fail ever. Not in 60 years let alone three within 4 years and 550 hours of use.

I still have not found out what the numbers on the relay mean. There is no amperage shown.

I also bought a service manual. Buyer beware, it is not for a US 50A. Be very very careful what you buy. The manual I got is for the 45A, 55A and 50A but for a Euro version. The wiring diagrams are not the same. They may be close in principal but the relay designations, their number and location do not match. Otherwise it is basically the same tractor mechanically from what I can tell. That commonality is common in US vs other market models. If you can read between the lines you can usually figure things out.

I would have bough the service manual from Case IH if I had found it as I did for my other two tractors a few years ago. Not now. Not a fan of the new version of the CIH web site.

There is another thread on 50A no start and I'll post a duplicate of this on that site for convenience to others in case this is useful.