Compacting house pad

   / Compacting house pad #11  
Eddie; There are a lot of special engineering on the "left" coast. It's really a beautiful part of the country with the weather and landscape, but you "REALLY" pay to be there full time. I guess the prices are whatever the market will pay. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
   / Compacting house pad #12  
The soil testing is a moot point. Whoever does the test, if they know what they're doing, will have to put togther a graph based on the soil density obtainable through a standard process for a range of soil moistures. The problem is, it sounds like the material was too wet when it was placed. That means the pore pressure was too high which might account for the sponginess the builder reported. I'm guessing that the backfill material will be contained so over time the second story garage will not be undermined when the clay settles or washes out from the bottom. I've ranted about using clay as backfill in many of the retaining wall posts. Make no mistake about it, It sounds like at least two walls of your walkout basement as currently planned will be retaining walls.

You'd be better off reworking the design to use a precast slab for the garage floor and leave the area underneath open. If you're using block for the walls, there are some other things the builder needs to do. It may cost more now, but if it isn't done right the problems will show up at some point. In some cases I've seen the cracks show up not long after the walls were laid. Over time, as happened to a friend, a basement wall can collapse which is a real PITA if you're using it as a finished family room and you end up with several tons of mud lying on top of your carpet not to mention the new view of the outdoors.

Rather than use block, if that's what you're planning, there are a lot of concrete contractors in MD and maybe closer that can construct a basement of reinforced concrete. In many areas the reinforced concrete is cheaper than block, especially if masons are few and far between. That will eliminate a lot of the potential problems. If you go that route make sure they install a waterstop in the basement floor slab to tie into the walls.

The other point to keep in mind is that the 100 and 500 year floods are mathematical constructs. They are statistical calculations based on the history of flooding in your area. Since statistics works best when you have a large number of samples, it's obvious that a hundred years of records isn't enough. Even in Europe with 300 or 40 years of records they get surprises. In my area consistent recordings go back to 1929. We've had three floods that exceeded the 100 year flood since then. The 85 flood was beyond anything they could calculate. Keep in mind a 500 year flood in most cases isn't much higher than a 100 year flood. The recent flood in NJ east of the Cherry Hill area resulted from 11" of rain. One newspaper account termed it a 1000 year flood. That was BS. I doubt given the circumstances, several dams failed, someone actually did the math.

In your case, I'd head for the local NRCS office which should be located in or near the county seat. they have a free booklet on designing ponds that goes into how to calculate runoff. The local Farm Service Agency which may be co-located with the NRCS office will have aerial photos of your area. They also have a device called a planimeter that they can use to calculate the acreage upstream from you. It wouldn't be hard to run some worse case calculations and see just what might come downstream. The booklet gives you all the equations and examples to follow. I'd plug in at least a 10" rain. With maybe an hours work, you'll have something to think about.

This may seem like a lot of effort, but there're folks in many areas of this state that have recently seen flash floods that have exceeded anything before. BTW, since you're not in a flood zone, you can buy flood insurance at the preferred rate which is around $100 per year. You might want to do that based on the results of your calculations.

Another factor to consider is unless you own all the upstream property you can't guarantee what may come downstream one day. Whether it's brush or childrens' toys. Your culvert might end up being a dam once it's blocked. Where does the water go then? Water can undercut a foundation very quickly that close to the creek.
 
   / Compacting house pad #13  
I agree with what dtsimmons said.

The type of soil beneath the foundation is critical. If it's not a good type, even good "spec dirt" with a lot of red clay sand in it must be compacted by time or by fancy equipment. Just mashing it down with a dozer won't do it.

Don't take chances with the foundation. You wouldn't want to be watching TV on Sunday afternoon and hear and FEEL what sounds like a rifle shot, indicating your slab just cracked. (yea, it happened to me). At least dig deep and wide enough to get to settled soil and spread crushed limestone to distribute the load. Make your slab plenty thick with plenty re bar and steel mesh. Make the footings wide, deep, and the trench bottoms smooth and rounded. Consider using fiber concrete, or a 6 bag mix. Consider the "Cable Lock" system.

You may come out cheaper hiring a structural engineer than to take every precaution known to man. Probably so!
 
   / Compacting house pad
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thanks for the info, Darren

I'll check into the planimeter. It will be interesting to come up with the different runoff scenarios.

We are taking precautions to keep the culvert inlets clear. We own to the ridge-tops pretty much all around us, and the creeks originate from our property, but we have found several dumped items around the property from the previous owners (old refrigerators, ovens, tires, pretty much everything). I have seen a pretty good sized log come on down the hollar once too /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The one positive that may come out of this is the potential gain of the basement area underneath the garage. It's an oversized 3 car garage, so there is a lot of potential square footage that we could put to use.

I think the builder is planning on using concrete-filled, rebar-reinforced Ivany block for this part of the basement. How does that compare to the reinforced concrete wall system you had mentioned (I assume this is the poured concrete form system)?

Hopefully we can get this project back on track this week.

Eric
 
   / Compacting house pad
  • Thread Starter
#15  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You may come out cheaper hiring a structural engineer than to take every precaution known to man. )</font>

Either way, it's still way cheaper to do it right the first time than fixing a problem after the house is built. I'll bet that was a bad feeling you had that Sunday afternoon!
We recently moved back to WV after being in Mississippi for a few years and I remember that they had lots of problems with foundations down there because of "Yazoo clay." The foundation repair and inspection businesses in Jackson seemed to be in pretty high demand.
 
   / Compacting house pad #16  
I'm not familiar with that kind of block. The thing I don't like about block basement walls is the difficulty of leakproofing them. If you use the waterstop with formed concrete, you've eliminated the potential for leaks at the floor to wall joint. With the block or the reinforced concrete someone will need to figure out how the precast garage floor slabs will be tied in if you go that route. Someone will need to figure if the block wall will need anything done to support and anchor the slabs.

The difference between block and formed concrete costs depends on your area. This is not a good time of year to find a contractor who has equipment and forms walls. Like any field if you find a contractor that isn't busy and can do something for you immediately, you better wonder why.
 
   / Compacting house pad
  • Thread Starter
#17  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Like any field if you find a contractor that isn't busy and can do something for you immediately, you better wonder why )</font>

There is definitely a lot of truth in that statement!
 
   / Compacting house pad #18  
You should, however, take heart that your builder pointed out the problem. A crappy builder would have just plowed right through. So, we should give your guy some credit for realizing there may be a problem.

Contractors, even the really good ones, are not experts in every sub-trade. When you hit a hard problem, its always best to find an expert in that particular field. Its part of the cost of building.

Soils and geology are as much black art as science. Get a pro.

Kevin
 
   / Compacting house pad #19  
I live in the desert so building on sand is what I do. Sand is an excellent base to build upon if it is done properly.

Sand has several properties that make it excellent and a couple that can be problematic. If you're trenching for utilities and backfill with sand, all you have to do is hydro-consolidate it and no compactive effort is required. Sand is non expansive and will not "settle" after it is consolidated so that is a good property.

Sand is obviously easy to grade as long as you properly moisture condition it.

Building a retaining wall? Sand is the best backfill as it will not expand/settle and it drains easily preventing hydraulic loading of the wall.

Now the bad part. Sand is totally stable under a building as long as it is constained. Sand on an exposed surface is friable and subject to water and wind erosion.

The key we use out here is to build the pad and then butress the edges with a more cohesive material. The pad will then be very stable.
 
 
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