Buying Advice Does anyone make real Gas tractors anymore?

[LouNY]

There was a price difference, I don't recall the numbers, and then needing a second set of barrels or tank for diesel.
The main reason was the cool not even cold temperature starting, the early diesels were hard starting especially with 6 volt systems.
Many of them were hard to stat in the mid 40's much less cold temps.
It wasn't till the early and mid 60's that the starting and fuel efficiencies really improved and then they had to over come the faults of the older ones.

 

[buickanddeere]

Yeah, we had a 2010 VW TDI. Got 40.2 mpg overall. When VW told us they'd buy it back, we parked it and bought a new 2016 Mazda3 2.5. It's overall average, driving it the same as we did the VW was 37, not much different.

Just recently I saw that VW is reaching 40 mpg now with their gas 1.4 liter turbo engine in their Jettas. (The only value that counts, unless it's a hybrid, is the highway figure. We've always met or exceeded the highway figure in overall average.)

Diesels are losing out by needing to use fuel to burn off the collected soot.

Engine experts say that if the gas engine designers put more compression ration into their engines to get close to that of a diesel, that they'll start running into NOx problems but no mention of soot. The Mazda3 engines are already about 12 or 13/1 compression ratio. Mazda's new compression ignition gas engines, their SkyActive X ones, will be running higher compression ratios. Think the TDI's was only about 16/1.

Ralph

Soot is a problem when EGR and retarded injection timing lowers the combustion temperature.

 

[Texasmark]

There was a price difference, I don't recall the numbers, and then needing a second set of barrels or tank for diesel.
The main reason was the cool not even cold temperature starting, the early diesels were hard starting especially with 6 volt systems.
Many of them were hard to stat in the mid 40's much less cold temps.
It wasn't till the early and mid 60's that the starting and fuel efficiencies really improved and then they had to over come the faults of the older ones.

Last 2 years in high school I worked tug boats in and around the swamps of Southern Louisiana. Lots of oil sources in those winding swamps/rivers so lots of barge traffic. Out in the middle of nowhere was a fuel stop with boat supplies and such. We loaded 1000 gallons that morning for our boat at..................9 cents a gallon; late 1950's.

 

[freedomlives]

Do they still sell offroad diesel that's not taxed in the US? Here at some filling stations I've noticed a an option that's disabled for "Red Diesel". It would be nice not to have to pay the ~50% fuel tax they levy over here.

Our cheap fuel is LPG, a lot of gas cars are converted to it and its about 60% the price of gasoline. I'm surprised that no-one has hooked up tractors here for it (other than the odd home-made tractor). I think much of Europe has far cheaper LPG than gasoline.

 

[buickanddeere]

If you purchase a three or four cylinder Kubota diesel powered machine . Kubota sells direct drop in replacement spark ignition engines for those applications .

 

[buickanddeere]

If Tier V and Tier VI diesel emissions ever occur. The tractor manufactures will have to look seriously at spark ignition in the under 100HP category of light and medium duty equipment.

 

[MHarryE]

Some comparisons as to why gasoline tractors disappeared. Selecting 2 of John Deere's most popular models of the past, 4020 gasoline and diesel, the Nebraska tractor test showed the 4020 gas achieved 10.53 HP-hr/gal while the 4020 diesel achieved 14.77 HP-hr/gal. After this series (JD 4020, IH 806) gasoline versions virtually dropped out of the scene.

Comparing technology changes over the past 50 years, I selected a typical JD farm tractor with Tier 4 final Nebraska tested in 2017, the 6195M equipped with power shift, same as the 4020. It achieved 18.34 HP-hr/gal, a 24% improvement over the 4020. In addition the 6195M power increased from 161 to 181 as it lugged down from 2100 rpm rated speed to 1700 rpm where it produced it peak power. The 4020 reached peak power at 2200 rpm and dropped off from there - 8% torque backup vs 36% torque backup on the latest generation. The common rail injection system has significantly improved the ability to lug through tough spots.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor manufacturers do switch to gasoline engines as the EC Stage 5 emissions requirements come into effect. It would seem to be a major shift because even Kubota uses other brand gasoline engines in things like their zero turn mowers.

 

[buickanddeere]

Some comparisons as to why gasoline tractors disappeared. Selecting 2 of John Deere's most popular models of the past, 4020 gasoline and diesel, the Nebraska tractor test showed the 4020 gas achieved 10.53 HP-hr/gal while the 4020 diesel achieved 14.77 HP-hr/gal. After this series (JD 4020, IH 806) gasoline versions virtually dropped out of the scene.

Comparing technology changes over the past 50 years, I selected a typical JD farm tractor with Tier 4 final Nebraska tested in 2017, the 6195M equipped with power shift, same as the 4020. It achieved 18.34 HP-hr/gal, a 24% improvement over the 4020. In addition the 6195M power increased from 161 to 181 as it lugged down from 2100 rpm rated speed to 1700 rpm where it produced it peak power. The 4020 reached peak power at 2200 rpm and dropped off from there - 8% torque backup vs 36% torque backup on the latest generation. The common rail injection system has significantly improved the ability to lug through tough spots.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor manufacturers do switch to gasoline engines as the EC Stage 5 emissions requirements come into effect. It would seem to be a major shift because even Kubota uses other brand gasoline engines in things like their zero turn mowers.

Diesel will stay in the Heavy Duty Market that you described. As for the light and medium duty market........with stop/start duty, idling, operation at partial load for limited period of time. The DI and even the port injected spark ignition engine is more tolerant of such operation and a cleaner tailpipe can be achieved with less tech , less expense and less problems.
Outboard motors, snowmobiles, portable generators, forklifts, ATV's, manlifts, small water pumps, cars, light trucks, lawn equipment and garden equipment are spark ignition for a reason.

 

[Btown]

Diesel will stay in the Heavy Duty Market that you described. As for the light and medium duty market........with stop/start duty, idling, operation at partial load for limited period of time. The DI and even the port injected spark ignition engine is more tolerant of such operation and a cleaner tailpipe can be achieved with less tech , less expense and less problems.
Outboard motors, snowmobiles, portable generators, forklifts, ATV's, manlifts, small water pumps, cars, light trucks, lawn equipment and garden equipment are spark ignition for a reason.

That reason is there is no regulation on the pollution that comes out he exhaust and if you put a Diesel engine in them they would be heavier and cost more. Not sure if you noticed but Ram, Ford and Chevy will all have a diesel option in the 1/2 ton market in less than one year. Chevy already has the diesel option in the Mid size pick up, as well as the Cruze and the Mid size suv. There are several other cars with diesel, but VW has given up and on it in the US even though 1/3 third of the Jettas, Golfs and Passats they sold had Diesels in them and they got great fuel economy. Not sure why VW scammed the system on the NOX gas reduction. They were using urea and I don think any owner would care if they used 2-3 times as much. It’s not expensive. It was just stupid what they did. The funny thing is after this scandal broke, Europe did a test on their diesel cars. You guessed VW/Audi had the cleanest diesel exhaust by far of any auto maker they tested. But they way the emissions law is written, none were in violation.

 

[buickanddeere]

Diesel exists in the light duty vehicle market not because of the North American market. Diesel light vehicles exists because in Europe and various other regions where gasoline is a luxury item and is taxed more than diesel. If you can save $60 per tank of fuel in your car by using diesel instead of gasoline . Of course there will be diesel light vehicles.