Jubilee won't start

[adlerstrom]

Hey everyone,
I use a Jubilee to mule round bales around for my horses. Last cold spell, seems to have messed up my electrical sys. somehow. Now after playing with it for over a week, I've probably really got it messed up. So far, I've replaced plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, rotor, dist cap, coil, selenoid(sp), and ignition switch. I have power to plugs and power to selenoid. Before problem started, the wire going to top small post on selenoid, came from ignition switch and wire from bottom small post, went to starter button. Now with the new parts, to get it to turn over, I have to take the wire from the bottom small post and touch it to the top small post, or the ignition switch itself. What have I done to my tractor?
Thanks,
Adlerstrom, aka Sam McKenzie, Chester, SC

 

[Soundguy]

What you've done is installed the WRONG solenoid. The OEM ford solenoid for that mahcine is 3 terminals.. 2 biguns.. and one lil-one. the lil one goes to the thumb grounding start swtich.. an dthe other 2 go tot he bat and starter.. note.. the bat and starter lugs are not interchangeable.

do you have a service and parts manual for this machine? I reccomend getting them.. helps forestall small non-problems like this when you buy the correct parts meant for your machine.

the way it works, the solenoind has 2 big contacts.. and internally, the energizing coil is hooked to the incoming battery side contact.. the small terminal goes out to the thumb switch which just grounds the coil circuit allowing the big contacts to close. Automotive 4 post solenoids come in 2 styles.. isolated and bypas.. the isolated style can be made to work by connecting one small terminal to battery, and the other small one to the thumb switch.. the bypas style won't work in this setup with the ground thumb switch, and instead works with key switch power, and is NOT appropriate in this setup as it prevents the use of the safety interlock starter system.

if you need any more help, post back.

soundguy

 

[adlerstrom]

Thanks Soundguy,
I'll break down and buy the manual. BTW I've had the tractor for around seven years, and it's had a four post selenoid on it the whole time. No doubt you're right about it being an auto selenoid. Just can't figure how it worked that way for so long....I'll get the manual, lol.
Thanks again,
Sam

 

[brin]

Soundguy - Hey I sure wish you had been around when I owned my Ford Jubilee ...I sure would have worn you out with questions...almost makes me want to go buy another one since I know you would be here to answere the questions...I sure do miss that Jubilee & a 9N I learned to drive on my Uncles farm when I was a kid...

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks Soundguy,
I'll break down and buy the manual. BTW I've had the tractor for around seven years, and it's had a four post selenoid on it the whole time. No doubt you're right about it being an auto selenoid. Just can't figure how it worked that way for so long....I'll get the manual, lol.
Thanks again,
Sam

you swap any wires around on it lately?

soundguy

 

[adlerstrom]

I changed every wire on it, one at a time. I forgot to mention that it's 12 vote negative ground, and has been, since I bought it. Could it still be the wrong selenoid? The only difference in appearance is that the mounting bracket is on the opposite end. The parts guy is a fairly knowledgeable fellow. He said it was the same selenoid other than that. Thanks for trying to help!

Sam

 

[Soundguy]

21A 11450 Is the aprt number for the 3 post solenoid. Though NCA11450A is the number CNH now specs for 53-57 models.

You did mention you had a 4-post solenoid correct?.. sounds like a 58+ unit like a 311007 .


soundguy

 

[tommu56]

Look at this thread it is similar

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/massey-ferguson-owning-operating/156177-20-electrical-short.html

tom

 

[adlerstrom]

Soundguy,
Yes it's a four post solenoid. If it warms up tomorrow, I'm going to put the old one back on and see what happens.

Tom,
I looked at the other thread. Sounds like a story of my life for the last several days. I'm really thinking it's the wrong solenoid. Somewhere in the past, it seems someone told me that you could use a four post solenoid, but ignore the second small post. Maybe I was dreaming, lol. Thanks again to both of you. If I ever figure it out, I'll post so you guys can have a good laugh.

Sam

 

[Soundguy]

Not dreaming.. just slightly wrong due to lack of info.

Yes.. you can use a 4 post isolated solenoid.. one small post to the bat terminal.. one small post to the safety start switch.. this will work EXACTLY like the oem 3 post solenoid..( which is usually cheaper than the 4 post isolated solenoid anyway... )

Yes.. you can use a 4 post bypass solenoid by hooking the coil small post to the 'start' side of an automotive ignition switch for a key-start setup. ( and ignore or use the bypass post , if needed ) this system does not use the safety interlock.. and is thus inherently less safe as you can start in gear...IMHO.. a BAD idea.

soundguy

Soundguy,
Yes it's a four post solenoid. If it warms up tomorrow, I'm going to put the old one back on and see what happens.

Tom,
I looked at the other thread. Sounds like a story of my life for the last several days. I'm really thinking it's the wrong solenoid. Somewhere in the past, it seems someone told me that you could use a four post solenoid, but ignore the second small post. Maybe I was dreaming, lol. Thanks again to both of you. If I ever figure it out, I'll post so you guys can have a good laugh.

Sam