Kubota Engines: EGR, Non-EGR, DPF, etc.

[rjkobbeman]

M8540 does not have an EGR (none of the M40 series do at this point). They are on some of the bigger M series (M126X and M136X just to name 2).

Even on the newer ones? I have no knowledge to question you, but I do know that Kubota has been making some revision changes to models due to emissions. My M8540 is a -1 model (M8540HD12-1) and I believe it was emissions related. EGR seems like it would be an emissions issue.

Thanks for all of the help.

I dreaded posting yet another engine oil thread... but could not find any info on this specific subject via search.

 

[DiezNutz]

Putting it all together, it sounds like Kubota went through a transition to make their engines ULSD friendly. Before they were ULSD friendly, it sounds like the CJ-4 (ULSD friendly oil) wasn't what Kubota liked. Now that Kubota's engines are ULSD friendly, the CJ-4 probably is too.

Not sure I would look at it that way, I doubt Kubota has done extensive redesign in the way of "ULSD-friendly", especially of established products. Excluding perhaps these alleged DPF engines, they're not really making the most advantage of clean-burn properties of ULSD (yet). What primarily needs to be compatible with ULSD, is the oil.

I'm no expert, but my view is something like this:

For oil type & viscosity, I look to the manufacturer.

For service category, I look to the manufacturer first, and in the event of a discrepancy with API, I go with API. Reason: Fuel evolves, and oil evolves to keep pace with it; API is obviously on top of both. Manufacturers don't always keep pace with either, especially on existing product. This discussion is one example.

And because it can't be said too many times , use a good fuel lubricity additive. :thumbsup:

 

[rjkobbeman]

Not sure I would look at it that way, I doubt Kubota has done extensive redesign in the way of "ULSD-friendly", especially of established products. Excluding perhaps these alleged DPF engines, they're not really taking advantage of clean-burn properties of ULSD. What primarily needs to be compatible with ULSD, is the oil.

I'm no expert, but my view is something like this:

For oil type & viscosity, I look to the manufacturer.

For service category, I look to the manufacturer first, and in the event of a discrepancy with API, I go with API. Reason: Fuel evolves, and oil evolves to keep pace with it. Manufacturers don't always keep pace with either, especially on existing product. This discussion is one example.

And because it can't be said too many times , use a good fuel additive. :thumbsup:

Never thought about nor used a fuel additive. What do you recommend in a new Kubota engine?

 

[DiezNutz]

The "go-to" recommendation I typically give is PowerService, either white or grey bottle. Because: It's cheap, goes a long way, and available everywhere, e.g., WallyWorld.

The white bottle can be used year-round and I like the anti-gel properties for winter; that way you only have to worry about stocking one kind.

 

[rjkobbeman]

M8540 does not have an EGR (none of the M40 series do at this point). They are on some of the bigger M series (M126X and M136X just to name 2).

Well, I just looked at my engine tag. Based on the tag and the suppliment documentation that came with the tractor, it has an EGR. The tag has this verbiage (along with a lot of other stuff):

ECS: EM, EGR

The legend in the document shows ECS = Emission Control System, EM = Engine Modification and EGR = you know what.

My guess is the EGR was part of the -1 variant.

Now whether this is an Internal or an External EGR, I have no idea.

 

[wmonroe]

Since Kubota recommends not to use the CJ-4 then I bet the dealers still stock CI-4 Plus, I know John Deere still sells CI-4 Plus. The CJ-4 oil has additives that were removed from the CI-4 Plus (cant remember which ones) and there is a group of people out there that say the the CJ-4 is not as good as the CI-4 Plus. I have done oil analysis on my truck with both CI-4 Plus and CJ-4 and have not noticed any difference in wear metals, TBN, or viscosity so it doesn't bother me to run CJ-4. If my manual said NOT to CJ-4 and I could buy the CI-4Plus easily at the dealer then thats what I would probably do.
Not sure if that was clear at all but hope it helps some.

 

[jas67]

I'm keeping my non-EGR, non-DPF B7610 for a LONG time.

The damned EGR system on the 6.0L Powerstroke is the root of all problems with that engine, not to mention it kills fuel economy. The 6.4L with the DPF gets even worse fuel economy.

Are they using DEF (urea) on tractors yet? I guess some farmers will start collecting cow-pee and making their own :laughing:

 

[DiezNutz]

Since Kubota recommends not to use the CJ-4 then I bet the dealers still stock CI-4 Plus, I know John Deere still sells CI-4 Plus. The CJ-4 oil has additives that were removed from the CI-4 Plus (cant remember which ones) and there is a group of people out there that say the the CJ-4 is not as good as the CI-4 Plus. I have done oil analysis on my truck with both CI-4 Plus and CJ-4 and have not noticed any difference in wear metals, TBN, or viscosity so it doesn't bother me to run CJ-4. If my manual said NOT to CJ-4 and I could buy the CI-4Plus easily at the dealer then thats what I would probably do.
Not sure if that was clear at all but hope it helps some.

At risk of having this discussion completely mushroom...
I think you're thinking of ZDDP, which hasn't been removed, only lowered. Ash content also had to be reduced for compatibility with ULSD and DPFs.

You're right, there are militant factions of anti-CJ-4 people out there, but IMO they're fixated only on reduced ZDDP and not considering how the oil formulation as a whole has evolved, to more or less compensate.
Anybody that's truly worried about it can buy ZDDP additive.

I've been following it all with profound interest for some time (it matters to me for more than just my 'Bota), and long story short, I think the whole ZDDP debate is less of a concern with a full synthetic. Which is what all of the CJ-4 sitting in my garage is. The first 200 hrs I put on the 'Bota were with Kubota 10W-30 (dino), which was CI-4 at the time.

Also, I've been trying to find this other thread, which I finally found, in which a couple of people claim to have spoken with Kubota, and were told CJ-4 was fine. Draw your own conclusions.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/135306-kubota-engine-oil-recommendation.html

 

[jrsavoie]

Does a 2022 LX2610 have an EGR?