Mig Welding..

[Sully2]

Mig welding is not cheap by the time you factor in the additional cost of a good mig welder, gas, and cylinder. It is easier to weld on thin metal if you use the right diameter wire. But for plain welding of thicker stock, it's hard to beat a stick welder for versatility, weld strength and economy. It's easier to change rods than to change wire and shielding gas.

For sure, for sure! If a person already knows at least the basics of welding...I cant see why he wouldnt get an AC/DC stick machine because it can do 99.9% of anything he needs.

If he knows basically nothing though..a wire fed machine ( more $$ for sure) using fluxcore wire is SOOOOO easy to learn on.

 

[swines]

Mig welding is not cheap by the time you factor in the additional cost of a good mig welder, gas, and cylinder. It is easier to weld on thin metal if you use the right diameter wire. But for plain welding of thicker stock, it's hard to beat a stick welder for versatility, weld strength and economy. It's easier to change rods than to change wire and shielding gas.

The flip side to your comments:

The deposition rate for MIG is much higher (you put down more weld bead in the same time). You don't have to clean the weld (chip and brush or needle scale). This all adds up to faster welding with no cleaning - and unless you have lots of spare time or your time is free, the costs aren't really that much different.

For straight steel welding, there's no reason to change gas unless you're using 1/16" wire and really high amperage. Either 75/25 or trimix will get you through 99% of the time.

 

[bobodu]

and unless you have lots of spare time or your time is free, the costs aren't really that much different.

Right on!!
Them tips,nozzles,gas,tank rental,nozzle spray,silly little wire pliers and feed wheels are CHEAP!!


Don't see how you can save much time making multiple passes PROPERLY with a MIG over a stick with big rods. I can also be sure the weld has penetrated deeply enough for safe use of the project.

 

[gemini5362]

OK I have read all the threads about penetration, On the highest setting I have a 160 amp mig welder. I dont cut off my weld after I am done to see how deep I penetrated the metal. However. I am building a quick disconnect connection bracket on some forks I bought that had to be modified for a QD loader. I am a really louse fabricator so basically in the learning experience of getting this project finished I had to do a lot of grinding welds to get everything to fit right. To be able to get the piece of metal loose so I could move it to where it had to go, I had to grind pretty deep into the metal. I am quite pleased with my penetration and I am welding, 1/2 inch strap. So all of the people that are extemely pleased with their stick welder. I am happy for you. You have a machine that you have the skills to weld with for a lot less money than I paid for my Mig. Please dont try to lower the quality of welding done by a Mig by saying it cant get the penetration etc etc. 160 amps is a 160 amps whether from a mig gun or from a stick.


I also have always found it interesting that when they show big welding projects on the discovery channel. ( big as in welding air craft carriers, submarines etc.) They seem to show a lot of robot welders which are basically wire feed machines. When I interviewed to work on barges which layed underwater pipes on the bottom of the ocean. They used electronically controlled wire feed welders. These were 80 foot section of 12 inch pipe which was welded together then lowered to the bottom of the ocean as sections were welded together on the barge. I would think that if wire feed welders can do those jobs then penetration is not an issue.

 

[bobodu]

You're comparing million dollar robot welders to an $85 (what I paid for my Lincoln..) arc machine. Let's just have a pulloff between your lawn mower and one of my farm tractors.
You don't need to cut any welds,most welding textbooks have the pictures already.

 

[MJPetersen]

Bobodu, You are being unnecessarily harsh. Granted that the robotic machines are very expensive and very high amp units. But what he started with was his 160 amp unit.

I have seen cold welds with a stick machine that sit on top of the metal just as often as I have seen Mig welds that sit on top. I believe that we will concede that at times a stick weld will hold, though it looks bad and a Mig weld will fail even though it look s good. However, on appropriate material, a properly done stick weld at 140 amps and a properly done Mig weld at 140 amps will both be quite satisfactory. In order to get the equivalent amperage and duty cycle the Mig will be more expensive, but it will be easier to use, generally produce less distortion, and is faster. With stick it is easier to switch rods for different effects and purposes--6011 for base passes and a 7018 for a finish pass etc but then again with the "glue gun it is not really necessary.

Both sides have pluses and minuses and each can accomplish certain tasks better than the other--that is why they still make BOTH!!

Mike

 

[gemini5362]

You're comparing million dollar robot welders to an $85 (what I paid for my Lincoln..) arc machine. Let's just have a pulloff between your lawn mower and one of my farm tractors.
You don't need to cut any welds,most welding textbooks have the pictures already.

I want to thank mike for what he said in the above post. Unfortuneatly you did not understand what I was trying to say. There are a lot of people that post on here that are very stick machine biased and that is a good thing. I dont agree when you start saying that Mig machines because they are not stick cannot make a good weld. My point was that a lot of very very heavy duty welding is done with a mig type welder. Obviosly mig style robotic welders can weld heavy materials. Do the machines I mention cost a lot of money, absolutely, I did not mention them being cheap I was just showing that it was possible. There are certain advantages to stick welders with one of the big ones being price. That does not mean you cannot do just as good a job with a mig as you can with a stick welder. Like mike said both have their advantages and both have disadvantages but both have the capabilities of making a good weld.

 

[bobodu]

You have both made very good and well made statements.
I guess my beef is guys who go out and spend $400 for a MIG and think they are going to build a safe 4200lb breakout FEL with it for their first project. Or build a motorcycle with the new 120v MIG. Scares the bejesus outta me.

 

[Sully2]

... There are certain advantages to stick welders with one of the big ones being price. That does not mean you cannot do just as good a job with a mig as you can with a stick welder. Like mike said both have their advantages and both have disadvantages but both have the capabilities of making a good weld.

Initial startup costs AND ..USED costs are the biggest advantages of stick machines.

As has been mentioned you can buy a USED stick machine ( AC only) for less than $100 and it is capable of welding in a single pass at least 3/8's thick material using proper rods.

For $100 you can buy a USED "wire fed welder" ( I dont use the term MIG because thats a totally different thing) using fluxcore wire that will BARELY weld 1/16 thick material!!

The biggest gripe many have with wire fed machines is.
1) They dont own one
2) They dont actually understand them
3) They wont or dont want to spend the $$ to BUY one to "learn"
4) Typically they have no reason to use MIG ( process)

And....for someone starting out...never having welded before..WHICH IS EASIER TO LEARN ON???

Personally..I started out 2 years ago with no welder(s) at all..and never was able to stick weld after almost 40 years of IMPROPER instructioin. Went to night school and learned to stick weld using DC ( and as a side note..DC is about 1 bazillion times easier to do than AC stick!!) and went on to using wire fed machines using MIG. Cost to purchase a welder..to ME..was no object! None! And you can see from my sig line what I presently have!

Each form has it own plusses and minuses..its as simple as that...but to say "you cant do "X" with "Y" type of welder is utter garbage..but I have to say this in closing...

Ive watched far too many "farmers" ( generic term) that use AC stick machines that are total WOOD BUTCHERS...because there are welders..and there are people who can weld ( hope you see the difference) I watched a farmer buddy a few weeks back "weld" a steel plate thats 3/4" thick..running a 3/16ths rod of 60?? series at 200 amps..weld it up and had penetraton of about 1/4 inch. With a wire fed machine the weld ( which wouldnt have been that deep) it would have snapped back open at first chance...but with his stick welder it "held"...but it was FAR from being welded properly!!!...and will just break again in the near future AGAIN.