Mowing and Bush Hogging for Profit

[PapaPerk]

Hello... another random question.

I've been asked to quote mowing the "green space" in a local housing development. Supposedly total acreage is around 6. This is divided up in probably 3 areas. Some areas are fairly rough requiring bush hogging 4 times a year.

Here's some questions I have.

1. Will an addition to my farm insurance policy work for the mowing job... I need insurance coverage.

2. How much would you charge? The mowing season is from April to Oct. Mowing every week... and bush hogging 4 times in that time period. The grass I would mow is not high quality so it just needs mowed.... not stripped, etc.

3. Can I write off expenses on my taxes without having a business? I do not currently write off any expenses related to my 6 acres.

4. I plan to purchase a new Kubota B series to mow with if I get the job. What's your feelings on that?! :laughing: I will use my Kubota L3830 for the hog work.

Thank you for any words of wisdom or swift kick in the britches. :thumbsup:

 

[Reg]

Hello... another random question.

I've been asked to quote mowing the "green space" in a local housing development. Supposedly total acreage is around 6. This is divided up in probably 3 areas. Some areas are fairly rough requiring bush hogging 4 times a year.

Here's some questions I have.

1. Will an addition to my farm insurance policy work for the mowing job... I need insurance coverage.

2. How much would you charge? The mowing season is from April to Oct. Mowing every week... and bush hogging 4 times in that time period. The grass I would mow is not high quality so it just needs mowed.... not stripped, etc.

3. Can I write off expenses on my taxes without having a business? I do not currently write off any expenses related to my 6 acres.

4. I plan to purchase a new Kubota B series to mow with if I get the job. What's your feelings on that?! :laughing: I will use my Kubota L3830 for the hog work.

Thank you for any words of wisdom or swift kick in the britches. :thumbsup:

1) Dunno, but I doubt it.
2) Depends, but be sure to include travel time, loading, unloading, extra insurance, etc.
You may need extra/different insurance on your truck too if that is not already a commercial policy.
3) Kinda/sorta/maybe. You can probably set up as a minimalist Mom/Pop outfit by registering as "doing business as" (dba).
4) Tractors are for tractoring, mowers are for mowing.
If you are at all SERIOUS about this you would almost certainly have better prospects of THIS job attracting similar jobs if you show up with the "right" equipment - not what it is that you want next in your toy fleet.
IOW a zero turn mower may be a better choice, look like a greens mower (-:

 

[leonz]

Hello... another random question.

I've been asked to quote mowing the "green space" in a local housing development. Supposedly total acreage is around 6. This is divided up in probably 3 areas. Some areas are fairly rough requiring bush hogging 4 times a year.

Here's some questions I have.

1. Will an addition to my farm insurance policy work for the mowing job... I need insurance coverage.

2. How much would you charge? The mowing season is from April to Oct. Mowing every week... and bush hogging 4 times in that time period. The grass I would mow is not high quality so it just needs mowed.... not stripped, etc.

3. Can I write off expenses on my taxes without having a business? I do not currently write off any expenses related to my 6 acres.

4. I plan to purchase a new Kubota B series to mow with if I get the job. What's your feelings on that?! :laughing: I will use my Kubota L3830 for the hog work.

Thank you for any words of wisdom or swift kick in the britches. :thumbsup:

==============================================================================================================================================================================

About mowing;


1. You will need/should have/must have a separate blanket liability rider for at least 2 million dollars as you are doing commercial work for profit.


2. A job like this is done on a per acre basis IF AND ONLY IF YOU CAN EXPECT TO SIGN A CONTRACT for X period of time WHICH IS A MUST DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


3. In a word NO!! unless you want to be audited.

4. Save your money;

a. There is no need to buy a new mule if the old one does not have be sent to the glue factory UNLESS YOU WANT TO.

b, Using a flail mower allows you to use one mower AND ONE TRACTOR for both jobs and save you a very large amount of money and the flail mower will stripe for you for no extra charge as the rear roller which is the mower height guage in use comes as standard equipment.


c. If you have a signed contract for X number of years will allow you to buy a good or better flailmower to do two jobs finish mowing and brush mowing with one integral mounted implement instead of two different mowers and two mules which are not necessary in any case. A new or used seven or eight foot JD25A flail mower will be more than adequate for both jobs without breaking a sweat using your L3830 alone for both jobs.




==========================================================
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[PapaPerk]

1)
4) Tractors are for tractoring, mowers are for mowing.
If you are at all SERIOUS about this you would almost certainly have better prospects of THIS job attracting similar jobs if you show up with the "right" equipment - not what it is that you want next in your toy fleet.
IOW a zero turn mower may be a better choice, look like a greens mower (-:

Thanks for the input. A zero turn is not ideal for the area that needs mowed. The ground is very rough and also includes some drainage areas. A 4wd tractor is a better choice... unless a person had a slope mower etc like a Ventrac.

The flail mower suggestion is interesting. I need to investigate. The L3830 would be well suited for the rough terrain.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would think long and hard before you make the jump, this may be more trouble and expense than it is worth. To pay all the fees, equipment costs and insurance needed will be costly. I suspect you would be better served to buy what you need/want for the home front and call it good, cheaper too.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm in the mowing business on a large scale. During the previous mowing season, my crews mowed well over 17,000 acres, and roughly 3300 miles of roadway right-of-way. I employ (at peak season) as many as 40 workers/operators. My equipment roster is approaching $2,000,000 invested. This isn't a hobby....This isn't speculation on my part. I'm NOT living in a dream world (like at least one poster so far) Here's a few pointers based on what happens in the real world.

1. Avoid flail mowers if you have ANY hopes of making money and/or winning bids on additional work. Their initial purchase price makes them a poor choice. Their EXTREMELY high maintenance requirements (while being used in commercial applications) makes them a HORRIBLE choice. Their low productivity (based on operating speeds of 1/2 to 1/3 of a comparable width rotary mower in typical mowing conditions) make them simply out of the question. Toss in the FACT that a flail mower of a given width requires more hp (ie bigger tractor) than a rotary of same width, and the cost of ownership/operation can be 3 to 5 times the cost of a suitable rotary that is MORE THAN CAPABLE of delivering desired results. BTDT, sent the flail mowers back to the dealer. Mow with equipment that puts you in a box (as far as higher overhead) and you'll EITHER have to bid work at low (to non-existent) profit margins, OR, you'll be pricing work at levels that make you non-competitive in a VERY competitive market. .....Stick with a good rotary mower. Overhead will remain lower, you'll be FAR MORE efficient in the field, and you won't be funneling your "profits" back into constant repairs on an overly complicated, inefficient, costly piece of equipment. Well over 95% of all commercial mowing is done with rotary mowers. New rotary mowers sell at a rate of well over 100 to 1 over new flail mowers. BOTH facts are based on common sense and real world experience.......



You'll find 90% (or more) of smaller jobs such as you describe will be awarded WITHOUT a written contract. People just don't typically get that involved in a simple, day to day type of job. At best, just a casual written "scope of work" agreement is the norm. Much of my work IS contracted. Cost goes up accordingly when we start involving administrative paperwork and lawyers. There simply isn't any room for the associated cost in most smaller mowing jobs. (For the record; I consider any job where we don't have to leave equipment on site overnight as "small jobs")

Get insurance (liability) It varies from state to state as far as minimum required liability coverage. Talk with agent to get proper advice, and don't take an uninformed whack-o's guess as gospel.

I'd speak with your agent (on farm policy) about off farm coverage. SOME policies protect you, but there would be a tie between the mowing business and your farm should a liability claim/law suit arise. Personally, I'd want the separation. You are after all, entering into a business venture that has many pitfalls and risk's involved.

I also have a farm. (and two other business's) The "safety net" of having each insured, taxed, and legally separated adds to the cost of operation, but protects my investments should troubles crop up in one isolated area.

And it's my personal opinion that it is simply NOT worth the risk to operate a business, regardless of how "small" it is, WITHOUT being "legal". IMHO, file legitimate tax papers on EACH individual business you own/operate. If there isn't enough "$$$$$$$$" in the business to make that worthwhile, it isn't a worthwhile business venture.

 

[blueriver]

Mowing can be profitable ... if you do your neighbors field a couple times a year and have no overhead and charge by the hr with a minimum... (in other words its not a business) if you want to compete with the commercial mowing crews ... you'll learn a hard lesson fast.

 

[NLS1]

I'm in the mowing business on a large scale. During the previous mowing season, my crews mowed well over 17,000 acres, and roughly 3300 miles of roadway right-of-way. I employ (at peak season) as many as 40 workers/operators. My equipment roster is approaching $2,000,000 invested. This isn't a hobby....This isn't speculation on my part. I'm NOT living in a dream world (like at least one poster so far) Here's a few pointers based on what happens in the real world.

1. Avoid flail mowers if you have ANY hopes of making money and/or winning bids on additional work. Their initial purchase price makes them a poor choice. Their EXTREMELY high maintenance requirements (while being used in commercial applications) makes them a HORRIBLE choice. Their low productivity (based on operating speeds of 1/2 to 1/3 of a comparable width rotary mower in typical mowing conditions) make them simply out of the question. Toss in the FACT that a flail mower of a given width requires more hp (ie bigger tractor) than a rotary of same width, and the cost of ownership/operation can be 3 to 5 times the cost of a suitable rotary that is MORE THAN CAPABLE of delivering desired results. BTDT, sent the flail mowers back to the dealer. Mow with equipment that puts you in a box (as far as higher overhead) and you'll EITHER have to bid work at low (to non-existent) profit margins, OR, you'll be pricing work at levels that make you non-competitive in a VERY competitive market. .....Stick with a good rotary mower. Overhead will remain lower, you'll be FAR MORE efficient in the field, and you won't be funneling your "profits" back into constant repairs on an overly complicated, inefficient, costly piece of equipment. Well over 95% of all commercial mowing is done with rotary mowers. New rotary mowers sell at a rate of well over 100 to 1 over new flail mowers. BOTH facts are based on common sense and real world experience.......



You'll find 90% (or more) of smaller jobs such as you describe will be awarded WITHOUT a written contract. People just don't typically get that involved in a simple, day to day type of job. At best, just a casual written "scope of work" agreement is the norm. Much of my work IS contracted. Cost goes up accordingly when we start involving administrative paperwork and lawyers. There simply isn't any room for the associated cost in most smaller mowing jobs. (For the record; I consider any job where we don't have to leave equipment on site overnight as "small jobs")

Get insurance (liability) It varies from state to state as far as minimum required liability coverage. Talk with agent to get proper advice, and don't take an uninformed whack-o's guess as gospel.

I'd speak with your agent (on farm policy) about off farm coverage. SOME policies protect you, but there would be a tie between the mowing business and your farm should a liability claim/law suit arise. Personally, I'd want the separation. You are after all, entering into a business venture that has many pitfalls and risk's involved.

I also have a farm. (and two other business's) The "safety net" of having each insured, taxed, and legally separated adds to the cost of operation, but protects my investments should troubles crop up in one isolated area.

And it's my personal opinion that it is simply NOT worth the risk to operate a business, regardless of how "small" it is, WITHOUT being "legal". IMHO, file legitimate tax papers on EACH individual business you own/operate. If there isn't enough "$$$$$$$$" in the business to make that worthwhile, it isn't a worthwhile business venture.

Wow, lots of wisdom speaking from lots of experience there, and thank you for all that you wrote!

As a small lawn and snow business owner, I can vouche for everything you wrote about taxes, insurance, and being a legit business in general. Much better to do it right than to risk loosing it all for a few hundred or few thousand dollars. Besides, ones reputation is on the line as well any time one might think about not doing it on the up and up.

Dan

 

[babypp2]

if you want to compete with the commercial mowing crews ... you'll learn a hard lesson fast.