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  1. #11
    New Member
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    Mar 2012
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    11
    Location
    West Bend, WI
    Tractor
    NH 1925

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    Thanks for the continued help on this. Thanks to your help, I now understand the issue a bit more, but still am trying to get to the bottom of it: The jam which the bolt should hit is so far away from the bolt end that it would seemingly take an extremely tight turn to get near it. Long before it would get to that point, the wheel rubs against the loader upright. Though my turning radius would be greatly reduced, stopping the turn just at the point of wheel-to-loader contact still gives me enough to get around.

    Also perhaps relevant is the fact that there is a mark where the bolt must have hit the jam at some point in the past, with a past owner. But that mark does not seem to be aligned with the current bolt placement?

    Thinking I just needed a longer bolt, I got two (75mm) and put them in. Because they are just 10mm bolts I suspected they would bend or snap off. They did bend as soon as they hit the jam. The jam seems to be at an angle; the bolt doesn't hit it straight on.

    So now a question: are there bolts of this size that might be hardened to the point that they would not bend? Why would the current bolt be so far from the jam? Because I use the loader daily, I can't really take it off, and so am hoping for the bolt fix. I can use the tractor now (and will be needing to use it a lot soon, if winter ever ends!) but cannot stay constantly focused on not turning the wheel too far -- I'll probably ruin the wheels, or worse, in no time. Note: the bolt in the attached pic is the old, shorter bolt.
    -tractor-001-jpg

  2. #12
    Veteran Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
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    1,202
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Tractor
    Toro D200, Ford 1715, International 884,

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    That jam would be designed to hit the bolt at a much sharper angle (shorter bolt). Even a Grade 8 bolt would likely bend. You could make a custom wedge shaped block that would bolt onto the hub, but it would still get a lot of transverse stress, especially if you have hydraulic steering assist.

    If it was my tractor, assuming the tire modification is permanent, I would rebuild it to maximize the steering and eliminate rubbing. (perhaps building a wide skid plate to catch any bounce).

    One option would be to cut another inch or two off of the bucket mount, but you may start to seriously compromise the integrity of the bucket mount.

    Here are some ideas and photos from my Ford 1715, undoubtedly different than yours, but perhaps related.

    -frontbucketmount-jpg-rearbucketmount-jpg
    Doing a right-left swap of the rear bucket mounts, and redrilling the front bucket mounts, one could at least move my bucket back about 2" or so. It would potentially interfere with the clutch, but the clutch could be rebuilt to not rub if necessary.

    You might also consider axle spacers to raise the front end a couple of inches. Would it tilt your tractor too much?

    -frontaxlemount-jpg

    Also consider the axle tilt bumpers. Especially if you raise the axle mounts, then you would also have to compensate with the axle tilt. Any adjustments would have to consider the maximum axle angle.

    -axlebumper-jpg

  3. #13
    Platinum Member the old grind's Avatar
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    Jul 2012
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    573
    Location
    Mid-Michigan
    Tractor
    NH T-1520 HST, JD 5210 2WD, Terramite T5C

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    Quote Originally Posted by jschreib26 View Post
    .... The jam seems to be at an angle; the bolt doesn't hit it straight on.

    So now a question: are there bolts of this size that might be hardened to the point that they would not bend?
    [1] Once you recognize the bolt length required, raise the front end and turn the wheels till the bolt head contacts the 'pad' to see what the angle diff is. Square up the pad to match with a hand grinder, repaint.

    [2] Look for '10.9' on a metric bolt head to get the strongest one commonly available. If it bends or breaks, repeat '[1]'. (Final grind angle will differ according to bolt length/adjustment.)
    -------
    Edit:
    +1 on raising the axle and esp the tilt-pads per post #12. Mebbe you can combine all these tweaks.
    Last edited by the old grind; 04-19-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #14
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    405
    Location
    princeton nc.
    Tractor
    JD 2320

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    IMHO as long as the loader frame isn't "snagging" and trying to tear the lugs off the tire, I would just let it rub. it will cause additional wear on the tires but you won't lose as much steering. my next idea would be to move the loader back/up and away from the axle. but that could cause other issues.
    2010 JD 2320, 200cx, Frontier 1060R RFM, 2048 BB, LR1072 rake, IMatch, 5 suitcase weights.
    NEED MORE IMPLEMENTS!

  5. #15
    New Member
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    Mar 2012
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    Location
    West Bend, WI
    Tractor
    NH 1925

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    Because I like this spacing, I like your idea, CliffordK, of making some more permanent modifications so that I don't have to worry about bolts snapping, etc.
    A few questions though, considering I am a novice who can't weld and doesn't have a lot of tools:
    I did cut off the sharp corner of the loader, because it seemed like I only needed an inch or so. Seems like I still need just an inch or so.
    -tractor-005-jpg
    Because I'm so close, I like the idea of swapping the rear mounts. It would definitely interfere with the clutch though. What is involved in "rebuilding the clutch not to rub?" Also, it looks like I wouldn't have to redrill the front mounts?
    -tractor-006-jpg
    -tractor-008-jpg
    With the axle spacers, would I just add another plate above what looks like a spacer here? And would changing the spacing there, and compensating the axle tilt (what exactly is meant by this?) negatively effect the 4-wheel drive ratio?
    -tractor-009-jpg
    -tractor-007-jpg

    Many thanks for all these great ideas!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -tractor-005-jpg  

  6. #16
    Bronze Member Kessler Farms's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
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    87
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    Thurlow, KY
    Tractor
    1998 NH 7610S w/ BushHog 2846QT loader, 2007 JD 5403 w/ 185 Koyker loader, 1971 JD 1020, 1943 International Farmall Super A

    Default

    Out of curiosity, what was the original tire size and the new tire size?

    Sent from my Milestone X2 using TractorByNet
    Family farming since 1792...

    1998 NH 7610S w/ BushHog 2846QT loader
    2007 JD 5403 2WD
    2008 JD 5403 MFWD w/ Koyker 185 loader
    2007 JD 5203 2WD
    1971 JD 1020 restored and still farming
    1943 International Farm-All Super A restored
    2007 JD Gator 620i XUV

  7. #17
    Super Member
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    Feb 2006
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    8,049
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    VA
    Tractor
    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    For the interference issue, check the worst case situation as the axle pivots up/down over terrain. If it doesnt hit on the flat land it may be tolerable at worst case if you remove as much metal as possible and smooth the edges and are careful to watch the inside wheel as you turn. Also, when youre not in 4wd the independent brakes can sharpen a turn a little tighter than the fronts are actually turned. This could make up some for setting the stops out a bit.
    larry
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  8. #18
    Veteran Member CliffordK's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
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    1,202
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Tractor
    Toro D200, Ford 1715, International 884,

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    There may be a couple of axle mounts (front and rear?), but you should be able to cut an inch or so spacer or spacers out of solid steel or solid aluminum.

    The tilt stops above the axle would have to be extended. You might be able to make a bolt-on stop, but I'd probably just weld it on.

    You can do some welding? Right?

    Check the brakes. It didn't look like mine would rub if one reversed the rear bucket mounts. But, it might depend on wear and condition. You wouldn't want anything blocking them in an emergency.

    The clutch pedal would either require removing and bending it, (Forge?), or cutting and welding on a straighter bar.

    From your photo of the tire, it doesn't look like it should rub at all. But, obviously when you turn, the tire goes through an arc in which the furthest back spot is probably near the bucket mounts. The axle spacers would make this worse, with the arc moving further forward/back.

    I'd encourage taking the front end loader off, jacking up the tractor and putting it on blocks. Or however you want to do it. Tilting the axle to 100%. Then turning the front wheel to observe the angle it goes through, as well as any other potential rub points.

    No sense in doing custom mods to gain 1" or 2" only to find that the wheel goes through an arc which would still cause it to rub.

  9. #19
    Super Member
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    Feb 2006
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    8,049
    Location
    VA
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    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
    I'd encourage taking the front end loader off, jacking up the tractor and putting it on blocks. Or however you want to do it. Tilting the axle to 100%. Then turning the front wheel to observe the angle it goes through, as well as any other potential rub points.

    No sense in doing custom mods to gain 1" or 2" only to find that the wheel goes through an arc which would still cause it to rub.
    Just point the bucket edge downward and apply downpressure to lift front wheels so the axle can be tilted fully either way.
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  10. #20
    Gold Member
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    Sep 2012
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    361
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario
    Tractor
    Kubota B3300SU

    Default Re: Custom tire width issue

    Quote Originally Posted by jschreib26 View Post
    -tractor-005-jpg
    Based on this picture, As CliffordK said, take the loader off and try turning the wheels. You may find that with full-lock turning your tires still hit the loader mount, nevermind the loader upright. If it still hits the mount, pull the core out of the valve and with help squish the tire in past the mount to see how far it will actually go. No point modifying the upright only to still hit the mount.

    The problem you are dealing with is called "scrub radius" which is the distance between the center of the contact patch of the tire to a line drawn thru the kingpins. Scrub radius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Wheel spacers greatly increase this distance as you've discovered.

    Is it possible that a wider axle from the next size large machine could be swapped in which would reduce the scrub radius back closer to stock?

    How wide are the spacers (or chance in rim offset) you've added?

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