Re: Tire ballast choice?

   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #61  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

I Plus, fluid just puts weight on the axle, does not act like a tee-totter and take weight off anything.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this Jerry. Whether your using wheel weights or fluid, both types of traction devices are considered "unsprung" and as a result no weight is being put on the axle as weight is being supported by the tire on the ground. Now if you mean there is more axle stress as a result of improved traction and less slippage, I'd understand. But the only time wheel weighting puts any weight stress on the axle itself is if the tractor is jacked off the ground.

As I'm reading this, I think I'm understanding better. The" teeter-totter " aspect happens with a 3 pt weight which can take weight off the front axle. Loaded tires or wheel weights put weight on the entire tractor.
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #62  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

I'm not sure I'm understanding this Jerry. Whether your using wheel weights or fluid, both types of traction devices are considered "unsprung" and as a result no weight is being put on the axle as weight is being supported by the tire on the ground. Now if you mean there is more axle stress as a result of improved traction and less slippage, I'd understand. But the only time wheel weighting puts any weight stress on the axle itself is if the tractor is jacked off the ground.

As I'm reading this, I think I'm understanding better. The" teeter-totter " aspect happens with a 3 pt weight which can take weight off the front axle. Loaded tires or wheel weights put weight on the entire tractor.

Say you have a hypothetical tractor that has 1000 pounds of weight pressing down on both the front and rear axles with the FEL bucket being empty. You add 500 pounds of weight out into the bucket. Now you no longer have 1K on each axle. The weight in the bucket acts as a teeter-totter would, trying to lift the rear some, while the front axle now still has the original 1K pounds plus the weight of the load way out front... and whatever weight that is lifted off the rear by the new load... is also added to the front. This action can quickly overload the front axle past its stated load limit. Putting wheel weights or liquid tire weight on the rear does little or nothing to lighten the front axle stress. But, if you place weight back on the three point, this weight, using the rear wheel as the center of it's teeter-tooter... tends to try to lift up the front of the tractor, including the FEL load. While the wheel weights and liquid load give you that feel good feeling that your arse is planted good, it does not take any stress off the front axle. If anything, it adds to it. If you want to do real work with your FEL, and you want to make your front axle last, you need ballast weight back on the three point. :)
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #63  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

Say you have a hypothetical tractor that has 1000 pounds of weight pressing down on both the front and rear axles with the FEL bucket being empty. You add 500 pounds of weight out into the bucket. Now you no longer have 1K on each axle. The weight in the bucket acts as a teeter-totter would, trying to lift the rear some, while the front axle now still has the original 1K pounds plus the weight of the load way out front... and whatever weight that is lifted off the rear by the new load... is also added to the front. This action can quickly overload the front axle past its stated load limit. Putting wheel weights or liquid tire weight on the rear does little or nothing to lighten the front axle stress. But, if you place weight back on the three point, this weight, using the rear wheel as the center of it's teeter-tooter... tends to try to lift up the front of the tractor, including the FEL load. While the wheel weights and liquid load give you that feel good feeling that your arse is planted good, it does not take any stress off the front axle. If anything, it adds to it. If you want to do real work with your FEL, and you want to make your front axle last, you need ballast weight back on the three point. :)

Ok that's what I figured you were saying when I re-read it. What threw me at first is when you said loaded tires put weight on just the axle which of course they do not.
This is probably why they make buckets so seemingly small for fels on tractors. In my Mahindra manual, it states that if I put on a grapple, I lose the warrantee because weight with a grapple is chucked out more out front but more importantly offers the opportunity for more lateral weight and thus stress depending on what the grapple is grappling width (pun intended)
The front axle on a tractor is usually rated just about twice what the fel capacity is. The problem arises when the tractor is traveling as motion brings in a whole bunch of other stresses that can surpass axle rating with a heavy weight on the fel especially if the weight is beyond bucket width. This is why when I want to move something the fel can indeed pick up , I do like the pic shows.
 

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   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #64  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

I have about 900 lbs in the back tires now the 2 wheel tractor handles great now thanks to beet juice.
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #65  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

Adding weight to the rear tires or rear wheel weights does not add weight to the front axle unless you were driving around with the rear tires off the ground before adding the weight.
Here is what salt water can do for you.
 

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   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #66  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

Weight on the wheel or in the tires does NOT add stress to the front axle in any way, shape or form if you pick up the same weight as without the rear wheel weight. The only way for that to occur is if the tractor would start to tip forward at some weight, and then you added the rear wheel ... and THEN tried to pick up a heavier weight than you could before.

In that case, yes, you could actually increase the stress on the front axle. In fact, I can see that happening as you become used to the new weight it takes to tip the tractor forward after you add the rear wheel weight. But if you use the same weight, you get the same stress on the front axle with or without the rear wheel weights.

I was sort of thinking that the primary reasons for adding rear wheel weight were traction and also better stability when carrying weight in the FEL. In the video clips I have seen they were trying to light a full bucket of dirt and the rear was getting tippy. After adding the rear wheel weight or fluid, it wasn't tippy, but the bucket was still a full bucket. So it really didn't occur to me to wonder about the new limit after the weight is added. I can see that could easily arise.

I'd say this is sort of a dilemma for the tractor owner. When you want to lift something with the FEL, how much is too much ... before you try to lift it? It would even make a big difference if you were using pallet forks whether the heavy end was either in front or back closer to the radiator, closer to the tractor.

This certainly opens up some room for discussion, at least mathematically. But since I have yet to see any mathematical analyses in here, I conclude it may not be of any interest to the forum. Still, it makes me wonder at how the FELs were actually designed and whether of not stress analysis was used at the time.

I also have not actually gone and measured where the FEL is attached and, just as importantly, where the hydraulic ram is attached to lift it. Logically, you can make a real case for pivoting the FEL on the rear axle. But I suspect that might make it very difficult to install and remove. The "center frame mount" types certainly look like a head and shoulders better design than the ones connected like early FELs.
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #67  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

On a tractor with a hydraulic scraper box you have plenty of rear weight for using the FEL. But when you need to pull the box full of dirt you need all the tire weight you get as the box is no longer adding weight just drag.
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #68  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

Adding weight to the rear tires or rear wheel weights does not add weight to the front axle unless you were driving around with the rear tires off the ground before adding the weight.
Here is what salt water can do for you.

That's why you need good tubes, and when /if you get a leak, you was the rims and retune. Intact paint helps too.

Paint dont rust and neither does rubber.

Poor maint routines lead to rusted out rims.
 
   / Re: Tire ballast choice? #69  
Re: Tire ballast choice?

I have rim guard or beet juice b in the back tires the best money I spent.
 
 
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