ToolCat C Lack of Power Issue

[Gadgetnut]

Wanted to let the group know I ran into a performance issue with my ToolCat rev C this weekend. I've been in touch with Rolando and it sounds very similar to his prolonged issue.

The problem presented itself after about an hour of mowing, both with the Bobcat 72" near finish mower and with the 60" BrushCat. The diesel engine sounds like it's running fine, at full throttle, but the hydraulic power has lost its oomph. A somewhat challenging mowing situation (thicker grass or slight inclined slope) causes the mower brake to go on slightly/momentarily and the forward power to slow or stop. Likewise, with mower going full throttle, if you stop on a very slight incline, machine will not move forward. Only if you backup downhill a few feet to level and start again will machine move.

Here's a link to video of the symptom I shot yesterday with my phone. The sound is the mower blades braking/slowing down as a result of my foot touching the accelerator. Everytime I try to move forward the mower wants to stall/stop. Machine will not move forward unless I raise the mower slightly, reducing the demand, then the machine finally starts to creep forward. Machine has lost its strength for hill climbing.

The problem showed on two consecutive days, and was not really noticeable for the first hour of operation. The mowing is not especially challenging, just 12 inch high grass or so.

Just putting this out there for your info and to gather any other input before I take this to the dealer. I'm at 300 hours or so on the machine, my 250 hour service at Bobcat dealer didn't turn up anything unusual.

Link to video: http://homepage.mac.com/gadgetnut/brushcat2.mov

 

[Dozernut]

I have no experience with a ToolCat but it sounds like your hydraulic fluid is overheating. Check the radiator for blockage and if the fan is functioning properly. You might try synthetic hydraulic fluid which has a higher heat tolerance.

 

[theoshin]

AGREE

 

[yellowdogsvc]

agree.
Try blowing out radiator from underneath and see if you are blowing fluff up. Not sure how C is set up but that's what I do on B. After a long day, even a skid steer will suffer some hydraulic loss of power as the fluid gets hot. Check for good air moving through the oil cooler and if that doesn't work, change your hydraulic filter again. Just a guess.

 

[Gadgetnut]

Just got in from long day to find your replies. Thank you Dozer, Theodore, and Yellowdog for your suggestions. I will definitely blow out radiator, check fan and oil cooler, and order a new hydraulic filter tomorrow. I'll report back what I find. Thanks again for the help! Best from Gadgetnut

 

[Rolando]

Here's another possibility for you to check out. My Toolcat was exhibiting somewhat similar symptoms and the service guy tells me the hydraulic fuel filter was clogged, even though it wasn't due to be replaced until 600 hours, I think he said. I only have about 350 hours on mine. Anyway, he tells me that after replacing the filter, none of the problems I had were showing up.

I'm supposed to get the machine back tomorrow morning and I'll let you know if the problem is indeed fixed.

 

[Gadgetnut]

Hey Rolando. I hope the hydraulic filter change solves your problems. Keep us posted. I have not had time to pursue my issues yet, but I will in the next few days. I plan to make certain all the radiators are clean as suggested above, change the hydraulic filter, and, as Dozernut suggested and now that the machine is out of warranty, consider changing to synthetic hydraulic fluid. I will report back my results. Likewise, keep us posted, Rolando. Thanks.

 

[Rolando]

Well, I just got the machine this morning and hadn't run it using the grapple for 15 minutes before it started behaving exactly like it was before it was picked up for service. I talked to the service manager and he says it was working fine this morning before they delivered it. I don't know what's going on. I don't understand how it can work so consistently badly for me here and the dealer can't see anything wrong. I should have driven down there and used it on their property to see that it was actually working before they sent it back.

Now they're going to send the road service tech out so I can show him what's happening (like we did the last time they returned it to me without having fixed it).

 

[UFM82]

Dealers can NEVER get overheat issues to occur because they are not out running the machine in real-life situations like the customer is. IF they tell you that the issue is simply a clogged hydraulic filter, ask them to identify WHAT has clogged the filter and to open the filter up and inspect it. It takes solids of some sort to clog a filter and if there are solids present in the filter, they came from somewhere whether it's a piston, valve, seal or some other item in the system. Either way, if a filter is clogged, something caused it to clog. If something came apart in order to clog the filter, there is damage somewhere that needs to be fixed. They don't put "extra" parts in systems that aren't needed. I get sick and tired of people bringing their machines in for service because this type of thing happens and the tech says "we tried everything to get it to do it" and then it happens exactly as before to the customer. That simply means that the tech either didn't spend the time required to diagnose the problem or doesn't have an idea how to fix it. My patience is wearing very thin with service facilities that offer no service to their customers as it gives a very good product a bad name sometimes. The Toolcats have been very successful in most of their applications with very few exceptions.

If you change fluids, you'll be doing your self a disservice as Bobcat products are designed to work with the fluids they use. Other fluids may be OK but is that 3rd party going to stand behind their product if the machine is damaged? You have to consider that when you go to another product.

Your symptoms are indicative of heat issues and Toolcats, with their less than ideal cooling system location, are very susceptible to overheat issues, especially when mowing. The mower decks and brushcats place a heavy load on the hydraulics and a lot of heat is generated. Be absolutely certain the radiator is clean and not just the screen. If necessary, separate the oil cooler and the radiator to make sure the space between the two isn't full of debris. Grass clippings get into the tightest spots without fail and I have seen it many times here. People mow and then raise the bed and blow off the top of the radiator and think they're done. They leave all the debris stuck in the radiator stack and then they have heat issues. Be sure your fan is operating properly and there are no restrictions in the system.

Check your cooling system first and foremost and watch your temp gauge. That will give you a very good idea of what's going on.

UFM82

 

[dsb5610]

Rolando and Gadgetnut,

I think I mentioned this in a different thread .... the service manual has specifics steps to test all 3 sections of the hydraulic pump. The tests require a hydraulic tester that incorporates restriction control used to increase the temperature of the hydraulic fluid so the results are obtained at working temperature. While these tests may not identify the specific problem it should identify if the problem is pump related.

On the 'A' series there are 2 hydraulic filters. Assuming the 'C' is the same make sure both are changed. Mine calls for replacement of the filters and hydraulic reservoir cap at 500 hours which I did this spring. I use Wix brand on my Toolcat but they are pricey.

dsb