Dealer Technical Support Available?

[melgibson]

Is there a dealer or other person out there that will provide phone technical support (for a fee)?

I've got several issues which I can't diagnose (oil pressure light, high speed doesn't work, relay burned up, etc.) and I need additional information which is not in the service manual.

My service manager and his main mechanic didn't know what a Toolcat is, and obviously have never worked on one.

Perhaps I can call the factory or a remote dealer that would take pitty and help me. Or perhaps I can have my mechanic (not a dealer) call them?

Thanks!

 

[Industrial Toys]

Sorry, I can't help, but I feel for you. I had similar issues with my Kubota Wheel Loader. It is not a popular machine and very reliable, so no one knew anything about it. Every dealer said to bring it in, so they could "try" and figure out what was wrong.

When I found a mechanic at a Kubota dealer (far away) that knew something, I could not talk at length with them, understandably so. I even offered to pay for his time, but they could not do that. And the best Kubota Canada could do is refer me to my closest dealer that handles construction equipment. Useless!

Very frustrating!

Fortunately, I have a local Menonite shop that knows my JD inside and out, far beyond a JD dealership.

 

[Jabonee]

Can you post the SN#? please post the specific issues. what have you done so far?

 

[DEWFPO]

Possibly and option.... When I had a problem with my Toolcat that the local service manager couldn't figure out he had the Bobcat factory service rep come out and take a look at my machine. That was over 8 years ago and the rep still responds to my ocassional e-mail questions. There should be a similar factory service rep for your area.

DEWFPO

 

[melgibson]

It is a 5600D, sn AOW113344; 2008, 3000 hours, maintained since purchase more frequently than required, no smoke, leaking oil, unusual sounds, high throttle reaches top of range, etc. Overall, used for moderate jobs (half to three quarter throttle)

The oil pressure light and engine cutoff is the big problem. It usually happens when I'm running at full throttle load like a mowing after about 45 minutes, often when I'm on a hill. Most of the time at that point the oil pressure gage has dropped to 36-40 (from 60), still within range at full throttle. It also occasionally happens when I'm hot but no real load. All I do is raise the bed and let it cool for 10-15 minutes. After that, I may finish the job without another problem.

At this stage I'm wondering if the engine is over heating, the oil is thining and the pressure drops. When it happens the engine is so hot I can't touch the oil filter. What's interesting here though is that the hot engine, hot coolant, or hot hydraulic error codes do not come on.

changed oil and filter,
changed engine coolant (didn't flush)
cleaned hydraulic and coolant radiators
Changed engine and hydraulic oil and filters.
changed sensor
checked pressure release value (I thought it was this; didn't replace it but it looked like no blockage/sticking)
Looked at oil cooler but didn't replace (not sure if it is defective)
added oil pressure gauge
no error codes- just the light and shutoff

Thanks for all your help.

 

[DEWFPO]

It's normal not to be able to touch the engine oil filter when the engine is at full operating temperature. It will be of similar temp to the coolant which will be ~ 185-200F.

What weight oil are you using in the engine?

Do you have an IR temp gun? You can hit the oil filter or oil pan with it and see what the oil temps are.

Can I assume the oil pressure light comes on before the engine quits?

36 - 40 PSI is still pretty darn good pressure for the rpm. The 'sensor' that you changed... was it the engine coolant temp sensor or the oil pressure sensor?

RE: the oil pressure bypass valve..... for the pressure to go down, I would think that the spring has lost it's strength and opens perhaps too soon allowing the oil pressure to decrease. I don't know how you would be able to tell this by looking at it. If it were sticking or blocked you would have the opposite problem.... too much pressure.

DEWFPO

 

[SSdoxie]

The Bobcat controller has an early warning system for engine oil pressure, it compares oil pressure to RPM. Higher the engine RPM the higher the minimum oil pressure required before warning turns on. I don't think the problem is in the warning system because sensor has been replaced and pressure verified with a gauge.
I suspect there is a small leak in the oil pickup allowing some air to enter. The pickup tube is fasten to bottom of the block with one bolt and end of the tube slides into the oil pump with an o-ring seal. Pickup tube might have a hair line crack, o-ring may been worn, or bolt has loosened allowing vibration which would cause o-ring wear and possibly crack the tube. Requires removing the oil to inspect.
The relief valve not seating tight is another possibility and easy enough to check but I encountered more issues with a loose worn o-ring. None of these were high frequency failures but did see one occasionally.

 

[Jabonee]

Press and hold the light button when your issue occurs. A code will be displayed. Then you will know what you are chasing. Listen for the 3 beeps that's your queue that there is a code. You will get warnings before shutdown. PSI low,extreamly low,shutdown. Same with the temp.If you suspect an overheating issue unplug the fan sensor located in the rear on the fan motor. You may have to remove the cover to access it. Unplugging the sensor will cause the motor to ramp up to full speed. When was the last time the software was updated? Overheating was an issue with the mower attachment. A grass screen for the radiator and software change corrected most. Software ramped the fan up a little sooner and a little faster. :thumbsup:

 

[melgibson]

Re: Technical Support Available? FINAL RESOLUTION

Press and hold the light button when your issue occurs. A code will be displayed. Then you will know what you are chasing. Listen for the 3 beeps that's your queue that there is a code. You will get warnings before shutdown. PSI low,extreamly low,shutdown. Same with the temp.If you suspect an overheating issue unplug the fan sensor located in the rear on the fan motor. You may have to remove the cover to access it. Unplugging the sensor will cause the motor to ramp up to full speed. When was the last time the software was updated? Overheating was an issue with the mower attachment. A grass screen for the radiator and software change corrected most. Software ramped the fan up a little sooner and a little faster. :thumbsup:

_________________________________________________________________________

Sorry for the delay- Here's the latest and final:

In addition to the above work:
1) Replaced the thermostat
2) Disconnected the fan motor control wire harness so that the fan would run continuously ( at a speed varying with engine RPM).
3) Completely removed the water radiator and thoroughly cleaned the water radiator and the hydraulic oil cooler below (NOTE: the manual says you need to remove the box to do this- not so if you use your clippers to remove the small bit of plastic from the tray which covers the two hoses)

The Good Results:

1) run a steady 50 oil psi and 1/4 in the green on the temp gauge at full throttle and full load (based on testing so far).
2) thermo gun indicates a 70 degree temperature difference between the water going into the radiator and the water coming out- previously at best it was maybe 20-30 degrees.

Analysis:

1) I believe the failed/inoperative cooling fan, and the fairly plugged radiator/cooler was the culprit- nothing to do with oil pressure despite the warning light (NOTE: I think it is a mistake to clean the radiator/cooler with water, except if you do it very carefully. If not flushed thoroughly the dust/dirt will dry and cake in the fins)

Bad News:

1) Still occaisionally get the oil pressure warning light. The last time this happen I just let the machine running and it did not automatically turn off (NOTE: the factory settings are: At water temp of 230-235 degrees you get a 08-10 code- high temp. At temp great than 235 degrees you get a code of 09-11- extreme temp and the machine shuts off after 20 seconds)


2) I think something may be wrong with my controller.


Futures:

1) I'm using a piece of cut-to-fit HVAC filter material placed over the radiator when I'm in operation. I'm going to place another piece over the exterior air cleaner body panel fins using velco to further filter material entering the air filter.

2) I'm going to leave the fan motor speed control wiring disconnected. According to the factory this should be OK. Supposedly, the electronic fan control is installed to limit noise when the high fan speed is not needed for cooling. When disconnected, the fan speed slows when engine RPM decreases, so I haven't found the noise objectionable. Possible danger is an overheating at low RPMs that the slower fan speed can't deal with. However, with this change I always get full fan speed with full throttle under load, which has been one of my problems.

3) I'm adding a water temp gauge and a hydraulic oil temp gauge, in addition to the oil pressure gauge I've installed (NOTE: hydraulic oil should not exceed 180 degrees at operating temp)



Thanks for your help!!! See the post for my next problem- contaminated hydraulic oil.