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  1. #1
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    I got a good deal on a Z5000 although the engine had been removed, I have now installed a 17 hp from a Toro wheelhorse HSL, I've got it running but will not start with the ignition switch, I'm starting it by crossing the solinoid terminals,
    In the process of troubleshooting I've changed out both the solinoid as well as the ignition switch but still no go, I've tried bypassing all 3 of the safety switches, the one under the seat and each left and right neutral switches, Does anyone know of another safety switch I'm missing somwhere? I keep reading about a safety kill switch having to do with the electric PTO/clutch but can't seem to find it anywhere, They're only 2 wires going into the clutch and back to the small side terminals on the solinoid,

    When hooking up the wiring I used both mowers wiring schematic to be sure I made the connections correctly, the wiring from both are very similar, Although the wheelhorse had a headlight wire coming from the magneto and had no place to connect onto the zero-turn, so I simply taped it off, This wire will provide an option to add lights in the future if ever wanted to,

    For now I'm needing to get this thing started through the ignition switch........ anyone have any sugestions?
    Thanks folks
    Last edited by deepNdirt; 04-07-2013 at 09:59 AM.
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  2. #2
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    I may have confused anyone who might notice I wrote HSL series, correction: it's a ( HXL series ) 17 hp B&S engine, But still none the less have not resolved the starting issue,
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    Never worked on a Toro mower, but GENERALLY speaking, the PTO switch will have a second set of contacts which the kill wire from the seat goes through. Is there a kill switch on the parking brake? The eXmarks I worked on had a seat kill switch which was activated by switches on the parking brake and the PTO switch. IIRC those switches either killed the engine or prevented it from starting.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  4. #4
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    Looking around from front to rear all I have manage to find is the seat safety and the left and right parking brake safety's 3 in total, I've bypass the seat for now so I don't have to keep sitting or pushing down on it while troubleshooting it, actually I have bypass the other 2 as well but have pluged them back up.
    I'm still thinking it has to be in the PTO clutch somehow.... I keep reading about it but not finding any addtional switch between the PTO and the Starter solinoid,
    I have removed the PTO clutch to do a bench test, what I have found is either wire can go on Pos or Neg to activate it, But what I'm not understanding is why when activated it does not lock up, It instead frees up the pully to spin freely, So correct my if I'm thinking wrong,
    The clutch is suppose to have friction while its switch is Off and suppose to work freely when the switch is On,.... ? could this perhaps be a faulty clutch?
    Thanks for any and all help
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  5. #5
    Super Star Member
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    IIRC, the friction works both ways, when off, its supposed to not be able to turn, when on it should only turn with the crankshaft.
    How many wires go into the clutch? I haven't heard of a clutch taking out the ability to start, but I have heard of a bad PTO switch doing that.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  6. #6
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    2 wires, a green one from the solinoid leading through the relay and on into the PTO, and a brown from the pto to the PTO actuator switch,
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  7. #7
    Super Star Member
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    If you disconnect the clutch wires, will it start with the key?
    My guess is that the relay is either bad or incorrectly wired.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  8. #8
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    Yes I have tried removing the wire still no change, I have used another relay for process of elimination, But the 2nd relay is used and could possibly be bad,
    When turning the ign switch to on I can hear the fuel solinoid activate, when I turn ign. to start I hear both the relay and the starter solinoid click, so I'm sure they're both receiving continuity,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -_0000-jpg  
    Last edited by deepNdirt; 04-12-2013 at 10:45 AM.
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  9. #9
    Super Star Member
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    If you are hearing the starter solenoid (the one that the battery cable and the starter hook to) click but its not cranking, its a bad starter solenoid. Do you have 12 volts at the starter solenoid trigger wire when you put the key in start?

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  10. #10
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Toro z5000 , installed engine from -> Toro Wheel horse 616Z

    when I turn the ign. switch to on it provides 10.0v through the Blue wire into the connecting terminal on the solinoid, is this what your calling the trigger? When I turn switch to start and check the larger terminal that goes to the starter it first shows 11.0 and goes flat 0turning switch several time I get random readings of 03. 04. 06. after letting set a couple minutes the first time always seems to be 11.0 but quickly goes flat 0. if I amediatly try a few times after it reads random numbers as shown,
    one of the things I tried was swaping out the starter solinoid but was again with a used one, I cannot verify it to be good, Maybe i should back up and change the solinoid with a new one, Then we can know for sure it will either fix it or move on to something else,
    Thanks for your help aczlan ( Aaron Z ) I'll let you know the results later today,
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

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