Wow. Now THIS is a brain teaser. As you can guess by my pic over THERE <<<... I am a diesel owner. This is our second one. I didn't mean to buy the second one for all the reasons mentioned. I do not NEED a diesel for the little towing we do, but DO require a HD pickup when we do it. When we went shopping we intended to go the route someone else mentioned, with one exception... we need 4 X 4. We were looking at V10 Ford's, XL Long Beds. The dealer was ready to have one brought up from Texas for us. Keep in mind these were brand new. The following day, we went to another dealer and found a 2003 Dodge, Diesel, Long Bed, Laramie, 4 X 4 with only 68,000 miles. They wanted basically the same money for it. I could get leather, CD, diesel and electronic transfer case for the and only give up 4,000 miles in engine warranty. To me this was a no-brainer. Although... with diesel still being higher than gas.... I think people are buying diesels that do not need them. I fall into this group. Demand keeps the cost of them high. Part of the reason they out sell gassers so much is that they do not make as many either. If the dealer had what I wanted on the lot the first day we would have bought the gasser. One thing about it though... there is nothing like the smell of diesel in the morning and I LOVE that purrrrr.
Why Diesel???
- Thread starter jcmseven
- Start date
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 7,365
I had a low tech 1986 F250 diesel in 1999 when diesel was .99 a gallon and gas was something like $1.19 if I remember right. The diesel engine got about 4-5 miles a gallon better gas mileage than a gas engine of similiar towing capacity. It was a used truck and was maybe $1000 more than a used gas powered unit. So there was some justification for having a diesel.
As the manufacturers have added more electronics and controls to squeeze out more HP and more MPG, the cost of buying a diesel has really gone up. I noticed that gas was $2.69 a gallon and diesel was $2.99 a gallon here this week.
If we did a detailed comparative cost analysis of gas v. diesel, I'm not so sure where we'd end up on this question today.
As the manufacturers have added more electronics and controls to squeeze out more HP and more MPG, the cost of buying a diesel has really gone up. I noticed that gas was $2.69 a gallon and diesel was $2.99 a gallon here this week.
If we did a detailed comparative cost analysis of gas v. diesel, I'm not so sure where we'd end up on this question today.
Spiveyman
Platinum Member
john_bud said:
Yeah, I'd like to see the details about that as well. There are always ways to make your vehicle look better in a specific test. There are all those vids out there showing the new Nissan Titan "out performing" the big Fords and other American made trucks, but they are not comparing them at what they are made for. Maybe Toyota figured out a way to do it, but it sure sounds fishy. I'm not from Missouri, but I'd still have to see that one to believe it.
Blk88GT
Silver Member
I recently went through this problem. I had been running a chevy gasser for 5 years, towing things I could, and things I shouldn't. It pulled them all, but it was not an easy task, and the truck was pretty much obliterated by the time I was done with it. I was tired of having to shift, or run the truck in 4th to get any decent highway speed out of it and not be a hazard. I had towed over 12k on an open trailer, and 8k in an enclosed 28ft trailer.
I swore I would never hold up traffic again, or bounce around the roadway like a rabbit.
I went with the diesel and I couldn't be happier. I drove the truck everyday up until my wife got a new job, and had no problems with it. I've gotten as high as 19mpg unloaded (hand calculated) but the average is 15-17. In the winter I've seen as low as 10mpg in the mountains (Montana/Idaho) while towing but doing 75mph.
I didn't buy the truck for savings of any kind, I bought it because I don't want to buy another truck for 5+ years with what I plan to use the truck for. The only reason I'd sell this truck is to upgrade to a crew cab from the extended cab. The truck's main purpose is to haul my tractor or building supplies on my 20ft open trailer, and my race car in a 28ft enclosed trailer.
I swore I would never hold up traffic again, or bounce around the roadway like a rabbit.
I went with the diesel and I couldn't be happier. I drove the truck everyday up until my wife got a new job, and had no problems with it. I've gotten as high as 19mpg unloaded (hand calculated) but the average is 15-17. In the winter I've seen as low as 10mpg in the mountains (Montana/Idaho) while towing but doing 75mph.
I didn't buy the truck for savings of any kind, I bought it because I don't want to buy another truck for 5+ years with what I plan to use the truck for. The only reason I'd sell this truck is to upgrade to a crew cab from the extended cab. The truck's main purpose is to haul my tractor or building supplies on my 20ft open trailer, and my race car in a 28ft enclosed trailer.
firedog
Gold Member
John Bud brings up some excellent points.
Not to mention the fuel itself. The properties of gasoline vs diesel must be weighed against the cost fuel & mileage. 1 gram of diesel will produce considerably more btu power than a gram of gasoline (I've seen the numbers before, just too lazy right now to look them up). So to get the same power out a gas engine you must increase the fuel delivery, which is where the cost of fuel & mileage come into play. (another factor to consider is the efficiency of the combustion in either (gasoline engines have greatly improved in the last few years)).
However, as John stated, to get the peak Hp & Tq in the gas, you'll need to be somewhere up around 4000 - 5000 rpm. The diesel will be at peak starting at about 1500 rpm & hold out to 2500, which is just about all of your pulling range. The gasser may be able to out accelerate the diesel, but on that long haul @ 70 mpg and a need for that continous 300 horses.........the difference is tremendous.
Not to mention the fuel itself. The properties of gasoline vs diesel must be weighed against the cost fuel & mileage. 1 gram of diesel will produce considerably more btu power than a gram of gasoline (I've seen the numbers before, just too lazy right now to look them up). So to get the same power out a gas engine you must increase the fuel delivery, which is where the cost of fuel & mileage come into play. (another factor to consider is the efficiency of the combustion in either (gasoline engines have greatly improved in the last few years)).
However, as John stated, to get the peak Hp & Tq in the gas, you'll need to be somewhere up around 4000 - 5000 rpm. The diesel will be at peak starting at about 1500 rpm & hold out to 2500, which is just about all of your pulling range. The gasser may be able to out accelerate the diesel, but on that long haul @ 70 mpg and a need for that continous 300 horses.........the difference is tremendous.
Z-Michigan
Veteran Member
firedog said:
So, two people beat me to my point.... the diesel makes power at a much more usable RPM for heavy work. We have a Ram 3/4ton diesel (2006) for pulling our gooseneck horse trailer. We can pull the trailer up and down mountains at 70mph on cruise control. We'll hear the turbo spin up and the engine roar, but there's no vibration and it's as close to effortless as pulling a tall, wide trailer loaded at 7000lbs can be. Haven't pulled it fully loaded in mountains but on flatland it's still effortless at nearly 10,000lbs.
In comparison, to get that same hp out of a gas engine you will be turning 4000 or 5000rpm. I don't know about you, but the thought of going up a hill for 10 minutes with the engine screaming at 5000rpm doesn't seem very realistic. From what I read on RV forums before buying our truck, people reported that with gas heavy duty pickups they would/could only climb grades at 35-45mph while with the diesels they climbed grades at 70mph without a problem. They were also reporting fuel economy differences of more than 2:1 when pulling large trailers.
Diesel engine prices have gone way up in a few years while gas engines have really caught up in their hp and torque ratings. With the diesel option costing around $8000 total on 2007+ pickups, you have to be doing a lot of work to justify it. If I bought today I'm not sure I would pay for the diesel, even though I would still want it.
For occasional towing or all short distances I think people are better served by gas at this time. Diesel makes sense for towing at the weight limit, doing lots of towing, or long freeway stints where the difference between 14.5mpg loaded and 5.0mpg loaded makes a huge difference in both cost and the number of fuel stops you have to make. What I find is that the diesel is never fast but it doesn't slow down much with a lot of weight hitched to it, and it's fuel economy doesn't drop all that much when towing. We get 19mpg with the truck empty, no trailer, and 13-15mpg with a 3-horse gooseneck trailer partially or fully loaded.
Rara Avis
Veteran Member
Did Toyota Stretch the Truth in the New Tundra Ads? - AutoSpies Auto News
from the above article...
The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
from the above article...
The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
unreconstructed
Platinum Member
John Bud makes a great point about elevation. What we have for hills in West Texas and the far west part of the hill country you mountain boys would consider flat. One of my places is at 3200 ft and the other is about 2200 ft. My tow distances are 75 miles one way and 220 miles one way to my 2 places. Just can't see the need for spending that much on a diesel motor given those facts. That said, I would rather have the diesel because that smell early in the morning is mighty sweet.
I've owned diesels since 1982 - but, why diesel? Last week I was at the end of a 5200 mile trip around the western states in my F350 crewcab dually and Bigfoot camper.
On the very last hill going into Albuquerque (I-40 eastbound - the infamous "9-mile hill") - I was gently chugging up the 6% grade at 75mph with the cruise control on. In my side mirror I spied one of the new Tundra "tow beasties" - I decided to see how fast he wanted to go and gently increased the speed to pace him until he finally backed off with his empty truck - that's what a diesel will do - haul heavy with no sweat.
BTW - I like Fords, but frankly, right now the new GM 1/2-tons are really hard to beat - especially with the 360hp motor. If Toyota wants you to believe they can tow more - I don't believe it. I saw too many of the little Toyota tow beasties struggling to make 55mph with under 28-foot travel trailers during my trip.
On the very last hill going into Albuquerque (I-40 eastbound - the infamous "9-mile hill") - I was gently chugging up the 6% grade at 75mph with the cruise control on. In my side mirror I spied one of the new Tundra "tow beasties" - I decided to see how fast he wanted to go and gently increased the speed to pace him until he finally backed off with his empty truck - that's what a diesel will do - haul heavy with no sweat.
BTW - I like Fords, but frankly, right now the new GM 1/2-tons are really hard to beat - especially with the 360hp motor. If Toyota wants you to believe they can tow more - I don't believe it. I saw too many of the little Toyota tow beasties struggling to make 55mph with under 28-foot travel trailers during my trip.
RobertN
Super Member
They may approach big rigs in HP, but torque? the 8.9L Cummins in the Fire Engine at our station is 350HP, but over 1200ft/lbs torque. That's 2X the torque of the current motors in the "big-3" diesel pickups.
jcmseven said: