Navistar refiles suit against Ford

[jcmseven]

PCABE5,

I am unaware that the 6.4L diesel has had a warranty claim problem. The 6.0L diesel actually turned out to be fairly reliable by the end of its run, but by then the damage had been done. I know our local dealers, two of which sell and service more Ford HD trucks than most anyone on the country, have noted few, if any problems from the 6.4L. They still see a number of 6.0L out there coming in for repairs/work. The Duramax and Cummins engines are solid engines, but neither of them have proven to be problem free. I think that GM and Dodge have done their customers better in such events than did Ford, perhaps standing by their product a bit better--a la Toyota. How many US companies would not have been raked over the fire for broken camshafts, etc. in their engines, yet with Toyota it is heard about, then disappears?? It also, I think, relates to how a company approaches these issues. Toyota and GM right now would chase down any known problematic vehicles--Toyota to maintain reputation and market share and GM to maintain the integrity of its long powertrain warranty and to avoid a public relations nightmare.

John M

[dgl24087]

Just curious what, if any, effect the seemingly impending divorce between Navistar and Ford will have on the Ford 650/750, as they are manufactured by International.

[Iron Horse]

I do'nt undestand why they all still have issues at all . Suck,Push,Bang,Blow . Its not new anymore , Should'nt the basic engines be reliable after the billions that have been made ? Should it not just be a matter of supplying good injector "O" rings , reliable variable turbo's , oil seals , gaskets , flywheels and clutch kits etc to make a reliable package ? Is there too much reliance on CAD drawings on computer screens than common sense design ? I know they are constantly under pressure to meet emision targets but surely this should/would be in mind when they first come up with the engine design and only have to implement the changes every year .

[Builder]

Originally Posted by Iron Horse

I do'nt undestand why they all still have issues at all . Suck,Push,Bang,Blow . Its not new anymore , Should'nt the basic engines be reliable after the billions that have been made ? Should it not just be a matter of supplying good injector "O" rings , reliable variable turbo's , oil seals , gaskets , flywheels and clutch kits etc to make a reliable package ? Is there too much reliance on CAD drawings on computer screens than common sense design ? I know they are constantly under pressure to meet emision targets but surely this should/would be in mind when they first come up with the engine design and only have to implement the changes every year .

Not when they keep changing everything every year.

It's no coincidence that the most reliable units were the ones with the longest production runs. (5.9 Cummins, IH DT-466, 7.3L powerstroke, 6.6L DMAX)

[shinnlinger]

Hi,

As I understand it, Ford Stopped paying Navistar for a bit because Ford Felt NAvistar made the 6.0, s poorly, but Navistar's Counter is that Ford DESIGNED the engine so it is really Ford's fault.

Is this true? IF so, maybe a Ford built 4.4 F150 motor isnt something you want to buy the first year of, but I am glad they are doing it.

THat said, when I was in England last year, I saw these Ford Maxi vans and trucks (FOrds version of the Dodge/Freightliner/Mercedes SPrinter) and they had I think 2 litre deisels and were held in high regard.

Does Ford make these English/European diesels? If they can push a big box van around at HIghway speeds at 27 MPG I would think they would do fine in an F or E series. THere were also diesel Focuses and Contours running around and I cant believe Ford doesn't import them as competition to the diesel Jettas. I mean they already make them AND they work...the low sulfur bugs are worked out. It isn't like they have to design them. What gives?

I also think Ford owns Cummings, but I thought the story was they bought it right after they had spent the time and $$$ to "Powerstroke" the 7.3 and wanted to go with that motor and Cummings brass liked the lucrative Dodge deal so they stuck with it.

You can get a Cummings in the F-650 cant you?

[Iron Horse]

I think the Cummins is a top engine but its so heavy . It must make light trucks like the Ram plow into corners . It would be an awsome engine if they could cast it in alloy . I wonder if an alloy block (with cast iron liners) and head could handle the shots fired by the Cummins ?

[dgl24087]

[quote=shinnlinger]
I also think Ford owns Cummings, but I thought the story was they bought it right after they had spent the time and $$$ to "Powerstroke" the 7.3 and wanted to go with that motor and Cummings brass liked the lucrative Dodge deal so they stuck with it.

quote]

November 3, 2005
From:
Powermaster
Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.
Columbus, Indiana, USA
1-800-DIESELS (343-7357)
TO:
FordCummins.com

Thanks for your Email message.

Ford does not own any portion of Cummins Inc.. Currently, the Dodge/Cummins and the Ford/Navistar agreements are set for the next several years, and no announcements have been published that we are aware of, by either company, to change engine suppliers. We would not expect GM to use Cummins diesels in their pickups, since they are affiliated with Detroit Diesel, which is one of Cummins major competitors.

Ford does NOT own any portion of Cummins. In 1994, Ford purchased 10% share of Cummins stock and currently uses Cummins B5.9 and C8.3 engines in their F-series trucks, larger than F550. Ford uses the Navistar Power Stroke engine in their pickups, that are F550 or under.

However, as of January 1, 1997, Cummins purchased back all of the original shares from Ford, therefore Ford no longer has any direct financial connections with Cummins. However, Ford still purchases some Cummins engines and are considered a very good Cummins customer.

[shinnlinger]

THanks DG,

That clears up the cummins ford stuff. At least the myth was based on some reality.

Now anyone know who makes the ulsd motors that Ford uses in Europe?

[Builder]

I swear, the "Ford owns Cummins" myth will never die. It's just an amazing myth. I still go to truck stops, diners, etc. and hear guys say "Yeah... I heard ford owns Cummin(g)s, so why don't Ford put a Cummin(g)s in the Superduty" ?

You want to walk over and tell them "Ford doesn't own Cummin(g)s...then you just sigh and say "awwww forget it"

[NewToy]

Ford sure is keeping me confused with their constant diesel engine shenannigans. Makes me want to keep my '99 250SD with the DT444 (7.3PS)
until it gives up the ghost. I have the 6sp standard tranny with an upgraded LUK clutch, press plate and flywheel. The replacement clutch assy sure made it alot easier to press in the clutch. You really appreciate it when caught in some bumper to bumper traffic. I received a factory recall notice a few weeks ago regarding a replacement cam sensor. I called the svc dept and they told me there is no time limit on a recall. I'll take it in to get checked in a few more weeks. I have a friend of mine that has had several problems with his cam sensor on his '99 SD with the same engine as mine. His has the old style air cleaner, don't know if that makes a difference. When buying replacement air filters the build date is important. After 5/99 it has the new air filter assy, mine was built 12/99. I currently have 170k miles and it runs great. I have always changed the oil at 3-5k depending how much time I was pulling my 24' trailer. I also change the anti-freeze every year and keep up with the coolant additive and test strips. I've seen how the cylinder liners get all chewed up without the additive. I also use the low silicate NAPA fleet anti-freeze.

John