New transport (what size chain)

[swines]

Originally Posted by AlanB

So, to sum up what you said, No, you cannot show me in the reg.

Thanks for all the help.

I am sure you carry your regs to prove that you have the "proper sized" grade 70 chain with you as well as your weight ticket.

I don't carry the regs - don't need to. All of my chains are Grade 70 binder chains that are stamped Grade 70, all of the hooks are stamped Grade 70, all of my binders are stamped with their WLL, and my straps are marked with their WLL.

I tie down as prescribed in the regs for heavy equipment - including securing implements, bucket, or back hoe. Don't need a weight stamp because I'm not commercial.

Have never had a problem with any impromptu inspection. Why? Because one look at how everything is tied down shows that the tie down meets the requirements for heavy equipment - and I'm transporting a CUT.

I don't have a personal need to waste my time proving some a point to an inspector or the police in order to be "right."

As I stated previously - by all means -- do your own thing. Use marked chain, unmarked chain, webbing straps, ropes --- whatever you want as long as you can meet the miminum requirements.

You seem to want to be confrontational about this....why? (double rolls eyes...)

[AlanB]

Originally Posted by swines

You seem to want to be confrontational about this....why? (double rolls eyes...)

Because as you said, I am doing my research, and do not see where many folks, and I guess particularly you, are coming up and saying Grade 70 chain is required.

The point I am trying to get across too you, and am doing pretty poorly at, is that even if you have grade 70 chain, that does not mean it is rated at what it needs to be.

If you had 1/4" grade 70 would it meet the requirements? I don't know, and honestly, neither does anyone else unless you have something (what I referred to as a "weight ticket" on your peice of equipment, configured as you are hauling it)

The reason I asked the question, and continue to ask, is I too tend to not like to disagree with the inspectors, I would rather they look and send me on my way with a smile.

But so many folks, much like what you have done the last couple posts, seem to throw the "grade 70" into the equation that I am thinking I have missed reading some part of the book, or there is some little proviso somewhere that says

"All tractors tied with chains must have grade 70 chains" or something to that effect and I would much rather someone on a tractor bulletin board point it out too me then the DOT enforcement guy on the side of the road.

In the FWIW I use 5/16 grade 70 and 3/8 grade 43 chains, and normally do it too 4 corners. But then again, I hook into welded on chains on the deck. I have yet to see many trailers with the weight rating on the deck attachment points, which, on many trailer's I see I would be more suspect of then any chain I have.

[QRTRHRS]

Originally Posted by AlanB

OK, I have heard it many time's here, and am just not seeing it in the reg's (even the ones quoted here)

I am not asking what "best practice" is, or "what I do", or even "what someone should do to prevent entaglements with the law"

I often see comment's where folks say you "must" use grade 70 (transport) chain.

Can anyone point that too me in the regulations?

My position would be you must use a size and grade of chain with an appropriate WLL for the securing that you are doing. I also believe that is what the regulations say, but would like someone here to prove me wrong then the DOT to be showing me what I have missed.

Look up the securement website and get throughly confused reading the regs. Then go back to the main page and click on "Educational materials cover cargo securement".

This will bring up the driver's handbook. It is a large file, like 23meg so it may take a bit to download.

Can we agree that under 10k, you may follow the regs for auto's? That often brings up using 2 vs. 4 tiedowns. Under 3.7.2, I see the statement minimum two tiedowns both front and rear. Still nothing about Grade 70 okay so then it is back to an aggregate limit meeting the 5,000lb requirement (based on an absolute 10k load).

Now, take a look at 3.8.2.1 and anything over 10,000lbs requires a minimum of four securing devices with a WLL of 2,268kg(5000lb). Looking at the chart for chain, 5/16 Grade 70 is rated 2130/4700 and 3/8 Grade 70 is rated 2990/6600.

3/8 Grade 43 hightest will of course meet the requirements so perhaps you are correct that Grade 70 is not needed.

"Would 1/4" Grade 70 meet the requirement?" Well, I admit to being confused by the aggragate sum verbage but I think so if the equipment weight was known and was under 10k.

Based on four tiedowns, the aggragate sum is one half the WLL of each tiedown point, a total of eight. I believe that is the same as multiplying four lengths of 1/4" Grade 70 WLL by four. Confused? I am.

I am not taking sides or trying to argue or anything about this discussion but I think that taking the time to read the additional material is helpful. From my perspective, Grade 70 may not be needed but if I was commercial, I would do anything possible to limit my time spent arguing with the DOT. For the casual transporter, consider the possibility of an accident. If you were at fault and you had met or exceeded the regs, that would be one less point to argue over.

[em14]

QTRHRS ... I agree with your logic
Leo

[swines]

Because as you said, I am doing my research, and do not see where many folks, and I guess particularly you, are coming up and saying Grade 70 chain is required.

I'm really confused. No where in any of my posts have I said that the use of Grade 70 chain is mandatory. If I have, please direct me to the post in which I said that.

In fact (and for the THIRD TIME) what I've said is: READ CAREFULLY->> But, by all means -- do your own thing. Use marked chain, unmarked chain, webbing straps, ropes --- whatever you want as long as you can meet the miminum requirements.

You see - what I've said is USE WHATEVER YOU WANT - as long as you can meet the minimum requirements.

The point I am trying to get across too you, and am doing pretty poorly at, is that even if you have grade 70 chain, that does not mean it is rated at what it needs to be.

Please define "...rated at what it needs to be."

Each grade of chain has its WLL that is associated with the size of the chain. For example: 5/16 Grade 70 is rated for a WLL of 4,700 pounds. 3/8-inch chain is rated at 6,600 pounds WLL. If you use multiple attachments, the load is devided by the number of attachments.

Luckily, I know how to add, subtract, mutiply AND divide....so I can add up the weight of everything I'm securing and then add in a SAFETY FACTOR. I use 15% as a safety factor --- meaning when I bind something down, I use the weight of the aggregate load and then multiply by 1.15. I use that as my final binding weight and use the size chain and NUMBER of individual securements required for that weight.

If you had 1/4" grade 70 would it meet the requirements? I don't know, and honestly, neither does anyone else unless you have something (what I referred to as a "weight ticket" on your peice of equipment, configured as you are hauling it)

My lord you want to make this complicated. 1/4-inch Grade 70 chain has a WLL of 3150 lbs. I would not use that to bind my CUT with a bucket and one attachment - as you have to factor in the G-loading (as described in the publication) in addition to the total weight load. So, what's your point?????

Multiple, individual tie downs are important. You're dividing up the working load on each chain. When I bind down my load, it will resist 13,200 pounds in any direction. Given that the maximum load I can put on the trailer is tractor + loader + backhoe - I'm far, far under the total load I can restrain - including my safety factor + G-force loading.

The reason I asked the question, and continue to ask, is I too tend to not like to disagree with the inspectors, I would rather they look and send me on my way with a smile.

Then why the "prove it to me" attitude? Use Grade 120, Grade 100, Grade 80 - go beyond Grade 70. I frankly DON'T CARE what you use.

But so many folks, much like what you have done the last couple posts, seem to throw the "grade 70" into the equation that I am thinking I have missed reading some part of the book, or there is some little proviso somewhere that says

"All tractors tied with chains must have grade 70 chains" or something to that effect and I would much rather someone on a tractor bulletin board point it out too me then the DOT enforcement guy on the side of the road.

Once again, I've NEVER SAID YOU MUST USE GRADE 70 CHAIN. Please read what I have said. Do not fabricate something I have NOT SAID.

In the FWIW I use 5/16 grade 70 and 3/8 grade 43 chains, and normally do it too 4 corners.

Then why did you even post your question - did you just want to hang out and be contrary?

But then again, I hook into welded on chains on the deck. I have yet to see many trailers with the weight rating on the deck attachment points, which, on many trailer's I see I would be more suspect of then any chain I have.

FWIW - READ the FREAKING publication carefully - there's actually a REASON you don't see the attachment points rated. The manufacturer's AREN'T REQUIRED TO RATE THE ANCHOR POINTS.

FMCSA cargo securement rules do not require rating and marking of anchor points.

Also, FWIW - my attachment point rings on my trailer are rated at 40,000 lbs.

Now what do you want to argue about? The steel in the trailer, the welds on the rings.....? You really have a need to try and prove some kind of point - just what is it?

[AlanB]

Swines,

Never mind.

I asked a pretty simple question.

Show me in the reg, where it says grade 70 must be used.

I thought I had missed it, because so many folks, yourself included, seem to specify that.

Please find the ignore user button and add my name to that list.

Thanks.

[George2615]

Alan,
This has been discussed many times. Some say you must use grade 70. Grade 70 is only one type of securing device. The regs provided below only require your tie down to exceed the (Working Load Limit). Depending on what you are securing to the trailer you could use rope, wire, straps, grade 43 chain, grade 70 chain, grade 80,90,or 100 chain etc as long as it exceeds the working load limit. (Working Load Limit) are the key words. I have been checked in weigh stations and the DOT in my state would OK 3/8" grade 43 chain, 5/16ths grade 70, or straps for securing my tractor as long as they exceed the (Working Load Limit). I had 3/8" grade 70 chain holding my tractor and they commented about the overkill. If someone doesn't like my answer they can find the ignore user button and add me too.

[AlanB]

Originally Posted by George2615

Alan,
This has been discussed many times. Some say you must use grade 70. Grade 70 is only one type of securing device. The regs provided below only require your tie down to exceed the (Working Load Limit). Depending on what you are securing to the trailer you could use rope, wire, straps, grade 43 chain, grade 70 chain, grade 80,90,or 100 chain etc as long as it exceeds the working load limit. (Working Load Limit) are the key words. I have been checked in weigh stations and the DOT in my state would OK 3/8" grade 43 chain, 5/16ths grade 70, or straps for securing my tractor as long as they exceed the (Working Load Limit). I had 3/8" grade 70 chain holding my tractor and they commented about the overkill. If someone doesn't like my answer they can find the ignore user button and add me too.

Thanks George, I guess that is more the answer that I was looking for, or at least it mirrors what I think.

I guess I read and read but see many references by folks to grade 70, not to mention that it is called "transport" chain and just suspected I missed something.

Thanks.

[Highbeam]

I use G43 - 3/8" chain. 4 of them and 4 ratchet binders. Based on WLL it is very much overkill which is why I got it. I have also been chewed out or otherwise thought poorly of for not using G70 chain. To be honest, when I bought the G43 I was looking at WLL and not even concerned with the grade. I also have concluded that the G70 requirement is a myth. That said, if I needed to buy new chain I would strongly consider the G70 upgrade based on the need to make a good first impression to the police car that pulls me over.

Oh, and I don't chain down the loader or implement. I figure that the hardware attaching these things to my tractor is sufficiently strong.