Am I legal? Tow weight question (weights listed)

[KeithInSpace]

I wouldn't split quite so many hairs. If your total load placed on the trailer is more than the payload capacity of the trailer, the trailer is overloaded. Don't see how overloading the tongue is a reasonable solution to this fact. Plain and simple: The numbers supplied are, at best, wrong. And at worst, intentionally bogus. However you want to look at it, the 8,950 figure is incorrect.

As an aside, that is a whole-lotta-tractor for a 7,000# trailer. Not saying you can't do it, but...

[Duffster]

Originally Posted by Diamondpilot

You forgot the FEL.

Chris

I guess I thought it was included in the 4418 number.

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

However you want to look at it, the 8,950 figure is incorrect.

No it's not.

Hudson isn't the only trailer manufacturer to rate their trailers this way.

Just because it is out of the norm doesn't make it wrong or incorrect.

[Raw Dodge]

Id use your setup for short trips and stay off the main roads (high speeds) with the axles/tires maxed out.I would look to get a 10K GVWR or 12K trailer with brakes on both axles.YOur 3500lb axles with just one set of 10" brakes is marginal at best.You will be able to stop 100% better with the 12" brakes that come on the 5200 and 6K axles under the 10 and 12K trailers.Your tow vehicle is fine,your engine is fine.Even if you are at its limit(which you are not),it isnt a safety issue at all.The same chassis/truck with duramax or 8100 is rated for 15000+ loads,GN or 5th wheels,and 12K on the trailer ball with less payload available than you have.I gotta say these guys are right on the hitch,it is the weak link in your truck.

[KeithInSpace]

Originally Posted by Duffster

No it's not. Hudson isn't the only trailer manufacturer to rate their trailers this way.

No offense to you, Hudson, or anyone else, but a 205 width tire on a 5 lug rim ONLY comes in a "C" Load Rating. Four of those black doughnuts can hold up a grand total of 7,280 lbs. If you find a 205 width R15 tire with Load Range D sold ANYWHERE, I'd love to see the link.

And it is simply not possible to rate a trailer based by including tongue load for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that for their number to work out, you'd need to load the tongue with nearly 25% of the trailer's load. Just doesn't make any sense.

Perhaps Hudson is the only ones to rate their trailers this way because it is the wrong way to rate them...just because they say it doesn't make it true.

[Raw Dodge]

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

No offense to you, Hudson, or anyone else, but a 205 width tire on a 5 lug rim ONLY comes in a "C" Load Rating. Four of those black doughnuts can hold up a grand total of 7,280 lbs. If you find a 205 width R15 tire with Load Range D sold ANYWHERE, I'd love to see the link.

I know your right,on my 7K enclosed trailer i wanted a little extra tire,since tires are usually the first thing to fail,so i put on 225/75/r15 D tires with 2540 lbs each.I still have 3500lb axles,but I feel safer at 65 mph with the better tires.My trailer is loaded to 6500-7000 all the time with the mowers,blowers,trimmers,and tools..The only downside to the 225 tires is they make the already weak brakes weaker,buy having less mechanical advantage with taller tires..

[Duffster]

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

No offense to you, Hudson, or anyone else, but a 205 width tire on a 5 lug rim ONLY comes in a "C" Load Rating. Four of those black doughnuts can hold up a grand total of 7,280 lbs. If you find a 205 width R15 tire with Load Range D sold ANYWHERE, I'd love to see the link.

This really has nothing to do with tires. Nobody is debating the fact that you are limited to 7k on the axles.

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

And it is simply not possible to rate a trailer based by including tongue load for a multitude of reasons,

Why? Because you say so?

Like I said Hudsin isn't the only trailer company to rate there trailers with GVW higher than the axle capacity so obviously it is possible.

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

not the least of which is the fact that for their number to work out, you'd need to load the tongue with nearly 25% of the trailer's load. Just doesn't make any sense.

Who is to say you are not towing with a vehicle that can handle a 1950# tongue load.

So with your reasoning you wouldn't rate a trailer with 7k axles for 7700#(10% tongue load)?

Really it doesn't make sense to not rate a trailer higher than the axle rating. If we assume a 10% tongue weight you can't even load the axles to there rating without being over GVWR.

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

Perhaps Hudson is the only ones to rate their trailers this way because it is the wrong way to rate them...

According to who?

Originally Posted by KeithInSpace

just because they say it doesn't make it true.

Actually it does. LOL

Try thinking outside the box for minute.

[ME83]

In the end what matter if you are LEGAL or not is what the plate on the trailer and your truck says, since that is what any law enforcement is going to look at. Whether it is correct or not is up to you since you are the one paying for the trailer.

Personally, you always have weight transfer when accelerating, decelerating, and grade. This is why you would rate the trailer by itself dependant upon it's axles, that tongue load will vary. I would rather be safe than sorry, a few hundred more dollars now for a heavier trailer could save you thousands if something were to happen, plus resale would be higher.

[Hematite]

Originally Posted by Duffster

This really has nothing to do with tires. Nobody is debating the fact that you are limited to 7k on the axles.



Why? Because you say so?

Like I said Hudsin isn't the only trailer company to rate there trailers with GVW higher than the axle capacity so obviously it is possible.



Who is to say you are not towing with a vehicle that can handle a 1950# tongue load.

So with your reasoning you wouldn't rate a trailer with 7k axles for 7700#(10% tongue load)?

Really it doesn't make sense to not rate a trailer higher than the axle rating. If we assume a 10% tongue weight you can't even load the axles to there rating without being over GVWR.



According to who?



Actually it does. LOL

Try thinking outside the box for minute.

Since you apparently DO think outside the box, I'd like your explanation of how a trailer that can only carry 5500? lbs of cargo could possibly be loaded to get a tongue weight of 1950lbs? Or, alternatively, how do you load something that is 7450 lbs to get 1950 lbs of tongue weight and 5500lbs of weight on the trailer?
And what would that object be?
And how big of a truck would you then need to tow a 7000/8950 lb trailer with an unheard of 1950lb tongue weight??

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Duffster]

Originally Posted by Hematite

Since you apparently DO think outside the box, I'd like your explanation of how a trailer that can only carry 5500? lbs of cargo could possibly be loaded to get a tongue weight of 1950lbs?

How did you come up with 5500?

If you had a tongue load of 1950 the net payload would be 7000.

Originally Posted by Hematite

Or, alternatively, how do you load something that is 7450 lbs to get 1950 lbs of tongue weight and 5500lbs of weight on the trailer?

Well for starters if it weights 7450 it would be to heavy for the trailer in question but provided you have trailer rated for that load you would place the center of the load 26% of the distance, between the ball and the center of the tandems, forward of the center of tandems. (This is over simplified and does not account for the tongue weight of the empty trailer)

Originally Posted by Hematite

And what would that object be?

Do you really need me to list the hundreds if not thousands or hundreds of thousands of things that can be hauled on a trailer?

Originally Posted by Hematite

And how big of a truck would you then need to tow a 7000/8950 lb trailer with an unheard of 1950lb tongue weight?

A F350 or bigger.

Is a 1950 tongue weight really unheard of?

[Hematite]

I can't confess to being an expert, but in doing a bit of research I've never seen a 7000GVWR trailer that would support a 1950 lb tongue weight. Most that I've seen are built with 4" channel tongues. Even a 5" channel tongue is not likely to be adequate.

Yes, as far as I'm concerned, a 7000 GVWR trailer designed for a 1950 tongue weight is unheard of. But then I don't always think out side the box.