Buying a medium duty dump truck

[Village Idiot]

I now realize that my 1 ton dump is simply not up the tasks that I ask of it. I feel like I am pushing it to (and at times beyond) its limits nearly every time I use it. Most of its use is hauling 3" roadbase up a short but incredibly steep hill. It has always made the trip, but I have ended up shoveling out the bed more than once because the electric hydraulic pump was not up the job of dumping.

I've been looking around for a 26K medium duty dump and have found a Int 4700 with a DT 466. I think it is recently converted from a box truck (tires are 19.5's) by the truck yard that is selling it. I know serious dump truckers are hesitant to go with a single frame, but this being just medium duty I don't think it's unheard of. (frankly I don't even know what a "double frame" looks like. I've heard the 466 (I'm guessing 466e) is a great little motor, but the reverse speed with a 5+1 may be a little fast.

This truck will get pushed when used, but not used to make a living.

Given all this, is there anything special I should watch out for? Huge question I know, but I'm a little out of my comfort zone and so far TBN has never steered me wrong.

 

[Builder]

I now realize that my 1 ton dump is simply not up the tasks that I ask of it. I feel like I am pushing it to (and at times beyond) its limits nearly every time I use it. Most of its use is hauling 3" roadbase up a short but incredibly steep hill. It has always made the trip, but I have ended up shoveling out the bed more than once because the electric hydraulic pump was not up the job of dumping.

Can you convert to a PTO dump? They are more powerful & faster.

I've been looking around for a 26K medium duty dump and have found a Int 4700 with a DT 466. I think it is recently converted from a box truck (tires are 19.5's) by the truck yard that is selling it. I know serious dump truckers are hesitant to go with a single frame, but this being just medium duty I don't think it's unheard of. (frankly I don't even know what a "double frame" looks like.

You can get a single frame on a tri-axle if you want. True, it's not as rigid, but a few guys buy them to save on weight so they can haul more. The truck is what it is. You shouldn't exceed the GVWR. If it's a 26K GVWR truck, then get it weighed, add the weight of the dump body and you'll know your legal, safe payload. If it's a long box truck, you may want to get frame shortened. You can double the frame even after the truck is built, but it's more expensive.

I've heard the 466 (I'm guessing 466e) is a great little motor, but the reverse speed with a 5+1 may be a little fast.

This truck will get pushed when used, but not used to make a living.

DT466 is a great small, but tough diesel. Very few weak spots. My opinion is the E models being electronic are less reliable than my old style non-E model, but that's pretty much the way all non E vs. E diesels are. The best thing you have going for you in that truck is the DT466. The other engine found in that truck is the base model T444E, which leaves a lot to be desired compared to a DT466E. Professional truck owners will opt for the DT466.

Given all this, is there anything special I should watch out for? Huge question I know, but I'm a little out of my comfort zone and so far TBN has never steered me wrong.

Would be great to know if it has air brakes, but even if it doesn't, it still should be a good truck. IH builds plain, reliable work trucks, especially for vocational use. Here's my DTA466 4WD equipped dumptruck. It's been excellent

 

[2458n]

I would have someone who knows check the rear axle ratio. Road trucks often have the rear ends geared to fuel mileage. A dump truck needs to be able start off with very heavy loads-requiring the right gears.

 

[Harold_J]

I agree with what 2458n says, try to check out the gearing. If the axle is geared too high and/or the trans doesn't have a good low 1st you will be in trouble when you have to start out in a soft spot or up a hill, both forward and reverse; you will be going thru clutches.

Are 19.5's that common on a 26K dump? I would think more usually 22.5's? unless a low profile setup. If this was converted from a moving van or rental truck you may want to think twice about it unless you can check it out with a max load.

 

[crazyal]

I would plan on doing a rear axle swap to a 2-speed in your future. You may find it does just fine as is but I would have a plan in place just in case it can't cut it. I would also look into insurance, you may find it's a lot more than your 1 ton.

How much have you been loading into your 1 ton? My international will hold about 4 to 5 yards of crusher run, anything more and I'm in CDL requirements weight. My truck is 4wd but has a gas engine so about the same weight. In this state once you get into a truck bigger than a 1 ton the DMV looks very closely at you. Cross over that CDL load limit and you will pay. Some pits will load as much as they can on your truck, the more they load, the more they sell. It sucks trying to off load gravel to lighten up your truck.

I have a couple of step but short hills I go up. My truck started life as a dump truck so it's rear gearing could be lower. It doesn't have a 2 speed rear but does have a transfer case with high and low range. My largest load was almost 32k and by keeping up a little speed I'm able to make the hills. I have to make sure I'm in the right gear and if I mess up and come to a stop I have to use low range or back down to the bottom of the hill.

Best thing you could do is when you try the truck out is see how low the lowest gear is. I'm my truck the lowest gear is not a gear you would normally use. You may find that it's better to upgrade your current truck to a PTO driven pump setup and maybe cut down on the load size than buy a larger truck.

 

[Builder]

I would plan on doing a rear axle swap to a 2-speed in your future. You may find it does just fine as is but I would have a plan in place just in case it can't cut it. I would also look into insurance, you may find it's a lot more than your 1 ton.

Mine is cheap. I pay the same for my 33GVWR/60GCWR dumptruck as my pickup.

How much have you been loading into your 1 ton? My international will hold about 4 to 5 yards of crusher run, anything more and I'm in CDL requirements weight. My truck is 4wd but has a gas engine so about the same weight. In this state once you get into a truck bigger than a 1 ton the DMV looks very closely at you. Cross over that CDL load limit and you will pay. Some pits will load as much as they can on your truck, the more they load, the more they sell. It sucks trying to off load gravel to lighten up your truck.

That's the way they were around here 10 years ago, but they are now being held partly responsible for overloading trucks. When I go across the scale overweight by more than a few percent, they divert your truck over to the waste pile. No trouble, I just hit the air tailgate switch and let a few hundred-a thousand pounds off and run over the scale again.

I have a couple of step but short hills I go up. My truck started life as a dump truck so it's rear gearing could be lower. It doesn't have a 2 speed rear but does have a transfer case with high and low range. My largest load was almost 32k and by keeping up a little speed I'm able to make the hills. I have to make sure I'm in the right gear and if I mess up and come to a stop I have to use low range or back down to the bottom of the hill.
Best thing you could do is when you try the truck out is see how low the lowest gear is.

I wouldn't go less than 4.30's for off road dumptruck work, but that's assuming your truck is lower on the power scale. A triaxle with a 400Hp N-14 can get away with numerically lower gears, but a typical medium duty dump with 190-250 HP needs 4.88's, 5.38's, etc.

 

[Dmace]

I've heard from many different sources to stay far away from any dump truck that was converted from an old box truck or "U-haul" type truck. These typically have many more hours on the engine and have been driven by so many different people that they seldom last as long as a good used dump truck. Plus as you stated, the frames are not always up to dump body duty.

 

[Builder]

Definitely checkout the rear axle ratio. It should be stamped and/or noted somewhere on the axle or truck body tag.

Typically with IH, it's found on the line setting ticket. Sometimes on the door tag, but rarely if ever. If the seller doesn't have the line set ticket, run the VIN through your local IH service dept. For a nominal fee, they'll fax it to you.

I don't think low-pro trucks had any 2 speed axles available since they are typically lighter GVW's. I would also checkout the tag on the transmission so that you could identify the ratio set it has.

Oh sure they do. BTW: you can get a lo-pro up to 26,000lbs. Old boss of mine back in the 70's had a IH 1510 with a 345 gas and a 5 speed/2 speed rear.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Mine is cheap. I pay the same for my 33GVWR/60GCWR dumptruck as my pickup.


I wouldn't go less than 4.30's for off road dumptruck work, but that's assuming your truck is lower on the power scale. A triaxle with a 400Hp N-14 can get away with numerically lower gears, but a typical medium duty dump with 190-250 HP needs 4.88's, 5.38's, etc.

Its cheap around here. Most guys like us run Farm Plates.


I have some legitimate questions for you. I have been driving a 1978 GMC C60 with a 350 4 speed High/Low rear end. It states the gear ratio is 6.50 but is that the high or the low? I hauled 3 loads in it yesterday working with my neighbor, its his. He also has a 1976 F700 with a 391 and a 5 speed backed with a High/Low rear end but I have no clue on the gearing in it.

So my question is when it list a gear ratio like 6.50 on the GMC is it the High or the Low? And what would the other gear ratio be in it?

Chris

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I've heard from many different sources to stay far away from any dump truck that was converted from an old box truck or "U-haul" type truck. These typically have many more hours on the engine and have been driven by so many different people that they seldom last as long as a good used dump truck. Plus as you stated, the frames are not always up to dump body duty.

Good advice.

A little over a year ago we got a 1989 F700 (23,000? GVW) with a 16' flat dump with twin 3 stage hoist that started life out that way it appears.

Then I looked an old Rider box F700 truck that may have been about a year older. While the cab and inside looked great it was going to take a lot of work to get it up into the same shape and had to many issues to purchase just for rolling storage.

It was a 300 trip home in the F700 with the pickup loaded on the bed up I-24 over Mounteagle and ran it hard the whole way. It will hit 70 but it is hitting 4000 RPM which is too much for an old truck with a 429 engine.

Back to the OP I would look for a dump truck that has been that way from day one. IH is a good truck engine too.