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  1. #11
    Elite Member Duffster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by downslope View Post
    What you say is partially true, but it also is not exactly correct. You only need the Class A license if the total combination GVW is over 26,000 AND the trailer being towed is over 10,000 lbs. So an 11K pickup towing a 14K trailer does not need a Class A in NC. Same for a 25K truck towing a 9K trailer does not require a Class A or Class B. Almost all states are like this, although there may be a few exceptions (CA??).
    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." George Patton

  2. #12
    Elite Member Duffster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithInSpace View Post
    The trailer in question is a used 2010 P&J 28' deckover trailer that my brother is looking at.

    The trailer is absolutely 100% a 14k# trailer. It has 7k# axles, 8 lug wheels, properly rated tires, and is built like a tank.

    I called the P&J dealership in North Carolina that originally sold the trailer and they said that in North Carolina, you need a Commercial Driver's License to pull a trailer rated for more than 10k#, so it is routine to "de-rate" the trailer if a Regular Joe is purchasing.

    The trailer is now in Virginia and Virginia doesn't have this silly law. Nevetheless, the trailer is now Virginia titled at 9,990# and the sticker on the tongue says the GVWR is 9,990#, even though the SAME sticker states the axle ratings at 7,000# each. Stupid.

    It is a real shame, because my brother can pick it up for $4,200...a SCREAMING deal for a 28' 14k# deckover trailer with no dovetail and slide-out ramps. It even has a tongue-mounted equipment box.

    MY QUESTION:

    Does anyone know if my brother can take this stupid thing to DMV and have it properly titled/rated at 14k#?

    He's going to be pulling his new kubota MX5100 with backhoe. That machine and his box-blade will be something around 8,500#, so he is going to be using all the capacity.

    Thoughts?
    Any trailer dealer, or truck body upfitter, can change the GVWR here.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." George Patton

  3. #13
    Elite Member Skyco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyco View Post
    That is not exactly correct. One does need a different license in NC to pull a trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs but it does not have to be commercial.
    NC has a class A license which is available as a CDL OR non commercial. One or the other is required to tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs GVWR.
    Quote Originally Posted by downslope View Post
    What you say is partially true, but it also is not exactly correct. You only need the Class A license if the total combination GVW is over 26,000 AND the trailer being towed is over 10,000 lbs. So an 11K pickup towing a 14K trailer does not need a Class A in NC. Same for a 25K truck towing a 9K trailer does not require a Class A or Class B. Almost all states are like this, although there may be a few exceptions (CA??).

    So, you can see there is an advantage to a 9,900 lb titled trailer in that you can tow it with a 26K truck and no special license. It can also help to keep your combination weight under 26K when towing with trucks rated up to 16K GVW.

    From the NC Driver's Handbook, Pages 11 and 12:

    Regular Licenses

    Class A Required to operate any
    combination of vehicles exempt from CDL
    requirements with a gross vehicle weight
    rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more,
    provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being
    towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.


    Class B Required to operate any single
    vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or
    more that is exempt from CDL requirements, or
    any such vehicle while towing another vehicle
    with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.

    Class C Required to operate any single
    vehicle that is not carrying hazardous material
    in quantities required to be placarded or is
    designed to carry no more than 15 passengers
    including the driver with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds; or any vehicle towing a vehicle which has a combined GVWR of less
    than 26,001 pounds operated by a driver at
    least eighteen years old. Most drivers need
    only a Regular Class C license to operate
    personal automobiles and small trucks.

    Well- did you get that online? Because the NC Driver's handbook online is WRONG! They only showed part a. of that law, they failed to include part b.

    Here is the ACTUAL LAW from here-
    Chapter 20

    "(2a) Class A Motor Vehicle. A combination of motor vehicles that meets either of the following descriptions:

    a. Has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

    b. Has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds."


    Great huh? No wonder people get so confused about all this when the state itself can't even get it right in their own Driver's Handbook


    All RED text above was so colored by me for clarification.
    Last edited by Skyco; 01-21-2012 at 05:46 AM.

  4. #14
    Elite Member Skyco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
    See above

  5. #15
    Elite Member Duffster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyco View Post
    Well- did you get that online? Because the NC Driver's handbook online is WRONG! They only showed part a. of that law, they failed to include part b.

    Here is the ACTUAL LAW from here-
    Chapter 20

    "(2a) Class A Motor Vehicle. A combination of motor vehicles that meets either of the following descriptions:

    a. Has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

    b. Has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds."


    Great huh? No wonder people get so confused about all this when the state itself can't even get it right in their own Driver's Handbook


    All RED text above was so colored by me for clarification.
    That is unfortunate.

    Because the NC Driver's handbook online is WRONG!
    I think the texted law is wrong here. Why would there be a need for it to be two part or even mention 26k? If either way you need a class A for a trailer over 10k?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." George Patton

  6. #16
    Veteran Member
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    CT235

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondpilot View Post
    Buy it, lose the title and data plate and submit the paperwork for it as a home built. Done it a few time.

    No way PJ will work with you. Too much liability plus they are not in the business of helping folks get by, they are in the business of selling NEW TRAILERS.

    Chris
    DOT / MOT would impound your trailer and fine your butt bigtime here. Would be a really expensive lesson.
    Tim.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member CHDinCT's Avatar
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    Connecticut
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    Kubota BX25

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB4310 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing, but with all the modern rules and regs I wasn't sure what kind of inspections they would have to put him through.
    I have one home made trailer now and had another one in the past, but both of those were single axle no brakes 2-3 ton trailers.
    Not sure how they would look at a home made 7 ton equipment hauler???

    From what soundguy says, it sounds like FLA is like CT in that you tell them what the trailer will be registered at. But like he says you better be sure every component is rated for 14K. Like a chain only being as strong as it's weakest link, if they under built any part of that trailer knowing it was going to a state where it only had to meet the 10K mark. Probably not the case but something to consider.

    JB
    JB, can you tell me more about registering a home made trailer in CT - what forms are required? Sorry to jump in here but I have a home made trailer I bought used a year ago that has dual 3500 lb axles and is built like a tank. It is registered now at 2900 lbs but I think if I add brakes to both axles, it should qualify as a 7K trailer. I was thinking I would add the brakes and get it inspected. Just don't know how to go about doing that in CT. I can't find anything on the DMV website on getting a trailer inspected. Again, to the OP, sorry for the interruption. Here's a pic (and yeah, I was over the limit as it sits with my 2,700 lb tractor on it).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -trailering-bx25-002-jpg  
    Chris

    2 acres and a mule, er, Kubota BX25, and too many other toys,er, tools to list.

  8. #18
    Elite Member Skyco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
    That is unfortunate.



    I think the texted law is wrong here. Why would there be a need for it to be two part or even mention 26k? If either way you need a class A for a trailer over 10k?
    Don't know, I don't understand why they wrote it that way. I live in SC but have land in NC, I tow over 10k rated trailers there all the time, but I'm good with my SC license, which is just a regular license.

    If I move to NC someday I will have to upgrade my license. Furthermore I can find nothing online that explains what is different, in NC, as far as testing to get a class A instead of their normal class C (for cars etc) license

  9. #19
    Veteran Member KeithInSpace's Avatar
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    Fred'burg, Virginia
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    Kubota BX2230

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    An update...

    This has all been very educational. But from you guys and from other discussions my brother and I have had.

    My brother called a state weigh station, the state police, and the VDMV. They all said the same thing. They don't really care about the 'derated' number when they pull you over, they go straight to the axle ratings, which are generally shown correct. Even if the tag is pulled, they'll just look at the lugs and rim diameter and get the axle rating lickity split.

    They then look in the door jam of the truck and find the GVWR. Then they add them together. They are looking for that magical 26k# number.

    The BIGGEST wrinkle is that my brother's F350 is rated for 13k#. If he got this trailer or any other trailer with two 7k# axles, he would be in trouble at some point.

    SOOOOOOOO, he has decided to pass on the good deal. It thought us a valuable lesson, though, because he had a new Leonard 24' 14k# dovetail all tee'd up...a trailer that would have also been 'illegal' for him to tow.

    In reality, this trailer weighed ~4,600#. The 12k# 24' dovetail (with fenders...not deckover) he is NOW looking at purchasing weighs closer to 3,000#. So for getting much less trailer, he is only costing himself at most 500# in cargo carrying capacity. 28 feet would have been nice, but I am sure he will be able to make 24 feet work.

    And he is, without a doubt, legal.

    With that, I thank the brain trust with much appreciation for your collective insight. Where else could I have learned so much and gotten so many opinions in such a short amount of time? You guys are great.

    Very sincerely,

    Keith
    Kubota BX2230, FEL, Woods BH, 60" MMM, Bagger, 4' Box Blade, PHD, 8' x 20' 10k# Dovetail Trailer

    Those of you who think you know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who do.

  10. #20
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    Central CT
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHDinCT View Post
    JB, can you tell me more about registering a home made trailer in CT - what forms are required? Sorry to jump in here but I have a home made trailer I bought used a year ago that has dual 3500 lb axles and is built like a tank. It is registered now at 2900 lbs but I think if I add brakes to both axles, it should qualify as a 7K trailer. I was thinking I would add the brakes and get it inspected. Just don't know how to go about doing that in CT. I can't find anything on the DMV website on getting a trailer inspected. Again, to the OP, sorry for the interruption. Here's a pic (and yeah, I was over the limit as it sits with my 2,700 lb tractor on it).
    Mine was originally registered over 20 years ago, and now I just renew by mail. So I can't really help you. You'll have to contact DMV (good luck).

    I never had to have a trailer inspected, even my 10k dumper and 9K flatbed, both of these have camp trailer registrations. I know that's weird but that's how they do it here if it's not commercial. The last trailer I registered was the flat bed a few years ago and I don't think I had a title, just filled out the regular reg form from what I remember, but I didn't call it home made.

    Once you put brakes on a home made, it might have to be inspected??? but I'm not sure.

    I actually have the cell phone number of a high up commercial dmv inspector, but I don't think he'd want me giving it out.

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

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