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  1. #21
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    Central CT
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithInSpace View Post
    An update...

    This has all been very educational. But from you guys and from other discussions my brother and I have had.

    My brother called a state weigh station, the state police, and the VDMV. They all said the same thing. They don't really care about the 'derated' number when they pull you over, they go straight to the axle ratings, which are generally shown correct. Even if the tag is pulled, they'll just look at the lugs and rim diameter and get the axle rating lickity split.

    They then look in the door jam of the truck and find the GVWR. Then they add them together. They are looking for that magical 26k# number.

    The BIGGEST wrinkle is that my brother's F350 is rated for 13k#. If he got this trailer or any other trailer with two 7k# axles, he would be in trouble at some point.

    SOOOOOOOO, he has decided to pass on the good deal. It thought us a valuable lesson, though, because he had a new Leonard 24' 14k# dovetail all tee'd up...a trailer that would have also been 'illegal' for him to tow.

    In reality, this trailer weighed ~4,600#. The 12k# 24' dovetail (with fenders...not deckover) he is NOW looking at purchasing weighs closer to 3,000#. So for getting much less trailer, he is only costing himself at most 500# in cargo carrying capacity. 28 feet would have been nice, but I am sure he will be able to make 24 feet work.

    And he is, without a doubt, legal.

    With that, I thank the brain trust with much appreciation for your collective insight. Where else could I have learned so much and gotten so many opinions in such a short amount of time? You guys are great.

    Very sincerely,

    Keith
    You can go but we will stay and argue more

    I know we've had this crazy 10K trailer - 26K CGVW discussion before,
    But I can't remember, do you go by the tag ratings or the actual weights.

    Like with your brother's 13K truck and 14K trailer. If his actual weight was under 26,000K would that be legal???

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member KeithInSpace's Avatar
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    Fred'burg, Virginia
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    Kubota BX2230

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    I am still here, but the trailer decision has been made by my brother.

    His understanding from the authorities is that the 26k question is about ratings, not what you are carrying.
    Kubota BX2230, FEL, Woods BH, 60" MMM, Bagger, 4' Box Blade, PHD, 8' x 20' 10k# Dovetail Trailer

    Those of you who think you know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who do.

  3. #23
    Gold Member
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    NY

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyco View Post
    Well- did you get that online? Because the NC Driver's handbook online is WRONG! They only showed part a. of that law, they failed to include part b.

    Here is the ACTUAL LAW from here-
    Chapter 20

    "(2a) Class A Motor Vehicle. A combination of motor vehicles that meets either of the following descriptions:

    a. Has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

    b. Has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds."


    Great huh? No wonder people get so confused about all this when the state itself can't even get it right in their own Driver's Handbook


    All RED text above was so colored by me for clarification.
    We have property in NC too, so that's why I tried to read up on this stuff before moving there.

    I know you're saying the manual is wrong but even if it is I don't think it makes a difference. You should read ALL of the statute that pertains. The section of the statutes you're quoting (20-4.01) is only the definitions preamble, and it's only defining types of vehicles, not types of licenses.

    If you read down a little further to 20-7, that is where they describe the actual classes of non-CDL licenses and what you're allowed to drive with them.
    20‑79(a) The classes of regular drivers licenses and the motor vehicles that can be driven with each class of license are:

    (1) Class A. A Class A license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:
    a. A Class A motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20‑37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

    b. A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

    (2) Class B. A Class B license authorizes the holder to drive any Class B motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20‑37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

    (3) Class C. A Class C license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:

    a. A Class C motor vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle.

    b. When operated by a volunteer member of a fire department, a rescue squad, or an emergency medical service (EMS) in the performance of duty, a Class A or Class B fire‑fighting, rescue, or EMS motor vehicle or a combination of these vehicles.

    c. A combination of noncommercial motor vehicles that have a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds but less than 26,001 pounds. This sub‑subdivision does not apply to a Class C license holder less than 18 years of age.
    So there you have it, it is spelling it out exactly the way I interpreted it from the manual. Even with just a Class C license you can drive non-commercial combinations between 10K and 26K as long as not under 18 years of age.

    As far as the original poster and his brother goes, yes he would need a CDL if the truck was 13K and the trailer was 14K, unless he was a farmer staying within 150 miles.

  4. #24
    Super Star Member Diamondpilot's Avatar
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    Daleville, IN
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    Jinma 254/284 Ford 861 Powermaster at work

    Default

    Around here the go by the ratings, not actual weight.

    They also look at the data plate, not the axles as was stated by the op.

    Chris

  5. #25
    Veteran Member CHDinCT's Avatar
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    Connecticut
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    Kubota BX25

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB4310 View Post
    Mine was originally registered over 20 years ago, and now I just renew by mail. So I can't really help you. You'll have to contact DMV (good luck).

    I never had to have a trailer inspected, even my 10k dumper and 9K flatbed, both of these have camp trailer registrations. I know that's weird but that's how they do it here if it's not commercial. The last trailer I registered was the flat bed a few years ago and I don't think I had a title, just filled out the regular reg form from what I remember, but I didn't call it home made.

    Once you put brakes on a home made, it might have to be inspected??? but I'm not sure.

    I actually have the cell phone number of a high up commercial dmv inspector, but I don't think he'd want me giving it out.

    JB
    Thanks for replying. Finding out what is or is not possible on re-rating a trailer in CT is tough for whatever reason. I think I'm going to stop by a few trailer repair/sales places to see what they can tell me. Maybe if I have them do the brakes, they can get it re-rated for me. If not, I can do them myself but I don't want to put a lot of money into a trailer that can't be rated for what it's capable of.
    Chris

    2 acres and a mule, er, Kubota BX25, and too many other toys,er, tools to list.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member KeithInSpace's Avatar
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    Fred'burg, Virginia
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondpilot View Post
    ...They also look at the data plate, not the axles...
    There was some mixed input on that from the authorities on this issue, but the state police person my bother spoke to was the one that said he'd be suspect of the de-rated GVWR if he pulled my brother over. I guess it depends on what side of the bed he woke up on.

    Let's be honest. If you have a trailer that is built like a brick poo-house, CLEARLY has 7k# axles, has the individual axle ratings of 7k# listed on the data plate, then has a GVWR of 9,990#, then anyone with a brain will know something is up.

    If my brother doesn't get bitten by one thing (being good to 26k# by having a de-rated trailer), he'll be bitten by another thing: Overloading his trailer.

    The kubota MX5100 with loader and 9.5 foot backhoe is no joke. It will fill a trailer. If the officer-in-question thinks about it too hard, he'll realize that there is NO WAY the trailer weighs less than 4k# and there is NO WAY the tractor weighs less than 6k#. Put 2-and-2 together, and there's a problem.

    There is an easy way to side-step the problem: Buy the correct trailer for the situation.
    Kubota BX2230, FEL, Woods BH, 60" MMM, Bagger, 4' Box Blade, PHD, 8' x 20' 10k# Dovetail Trailer

    Those of you who think you know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who do.

  7. #27
    Silver Member Sterff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    If you have a 14K trailer rated at 9990 GVW and only haul up to 9990 GVW then I would assume there is nothing they can do about it.

  8. #28
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sterff View Post
    If you have a 14K trailer rated at 9990 GVW and only haul up to 9990 GVW then I would assume there is nothing they can do about it.
    Of course, you're right, but op's brothers tractor at 8500LBS I think he said, plus the weight of the trailer would be over, even deducting tongue weight.

    JB.
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member flyingcow's Avatar
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    aroostook county maine

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    i still would re-issue trailer as homemade. Also, keep in mind the rating on the trailer is different than registered weight. i could put 16,000lbs of registration on a two axle trailer, that is "stamped" as a 12,000lb trailer. The "law" might pick up on this if you're stopped. Maybe not.
    TN75D, w/cab, FEL, BH
    7 1/2 ft Lucknow Blower

  10. #30
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    Central CT
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Would be curious what the coupler is rated at, don't forget everything has to be rated, tires, springs, wheels, even the U-bolts and shackles. of course that means the frame.

    I know I went through this with my trailer, it obviously has two 5200 axles but the rest is built like a 8K trailer. though they call it 9K cause they are factoring in the tongue weight

    I have no idea why, they would do that.

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

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